Valve Mysteries I cannot understand

[servus]

A lot of you have lots of experience when it comes to harmonica maintenance. I've learned how to remove the slide from my Seydel Symphony 48, clean valves by running a sliver of a damp coffee filter under the valves and between valve and plastic cover. I also occasionally give my Symphony 48 a bath in a wading pool - i.e. dunking the mouthpiece into about three-quarters of an inch of water for about 15 minutes. But now things have been getting serious. A few months ago, a valve, somewhere in the middle just fell off. I've heard that Seydel glue is not the best (though I have no complaints about the rest of the instrument). According to Greg Jones whose videos I watch with great interest: If the reed plays without the valve, just leave it. No need to replace the valve. The reed played fine, I did not replace the valve. But now the low G valve (lowest note on the Symphony) fell off. I thought, uh oh, I'm gong to have to learn how to replace valves now. But no. The G plays fine (!?). But now the low A has been doing weird things. Sometimes it is muffled, sometimes not. I keep cleaning the valve which looks like it too is about to fall off. In addition, the low C# sometimes refuses to do anything. Then the sound returns. Okay this is getting to be a long story. My question: What do I do now? Remove the valves and play without replacing them or jump in the hot water, watch Greg Jones' video again and try to put on a new valve - this time using the glue Hohner recommends here in Germany where I live?

PJ

[Grizzly]

Re-glue the valves. Use nail polish that you leave the cap off for awhile to make it less runny. Duco cement works well, if you can find it.

Notes not playing and then playing again might be moisture (condensation) between the valve and the reedplate. Make sure you warm the harmonica before playing (under arm, heating pad, etc.). A valve missing over a particular reed may actually affect the other reed in the same chambe.

Hope this helps.

Tom

[servus]

Thanks Tom. Didn't know you can use nail polish as glue. Living in Germany, I bought "Pattex Repair Extreme" which is what Hohner recommends. I always warm up my valved harmonicas before playing. It doesn't seem to help solve this recent problem with the balky blow notes I mentioned. I've cleaned them over and over and then it happens again. As for the valveless reeds (it's only blow notes). I will observe to see if I notice any weird sounds. If I do, I'll have to "bite into the sour apple" as they say in German and replace the reed.

best
PJ

[Gnarly He Man]

Valves over blow reed slots (the ones on the outside) are for the draw notes!
Personally I like valves, YMMV.
Chromatic harmonicas are so fiddly.

[servus]

Yep, fiddly. That means that the valve that fell off (first valve Orchestra tuning) controls the G# and not the G...or am I getting totally confused? Let me try it again: The visible valves on the reed plate - top and bottom - are for draw note. The invisible, requiring me to remove the reed plate (which I've never done) control the blow notes. Did I get that right?

thanks
PJ

[Gnarly He Man]

Correct.
Valves seal off a slot, the blow notes are inside so the valves outside seal off the blow notes when you inhale.
Same with the valves inside the harp, they seal off the draw slot so that no air escapes when you blow.

[servus]

Thanks. I'm going to have to memorize what you wrote and try visualizing the process till it becomes second nature. And what about my C# (I think it's the C#). Recently, when I blow that note (pushing the button), no sound comes out. I take the cover off and plunk the reed with a needle. Then it works again - but only for a short while before jamming again. Sometimes I blow and draw on that hole (C#, D) and everything's fine for a while till the next logjam. I hope that problem does not require me to remove the reedplate. That would be a first for me.

[Grizzly]

Thanks. I'm going to have to memorize what you wrote and try visualizing the process till it becomes second nature. And what about my C# (I think it's the C#). Recently, when I blow that note (pushing the button), no sound comes out. I take the cover off and plunk the reed with a needle. Then it works again - but only for a short while before jamming again. Sometimes I blow and draw on that hole (C#, D) and everything's fine for a while till the next logjam. I hope that problem does not require me to remove the reedplate. That would be a first for me.

Sometimes one of my reeds won't play because a very thin filament (cat hair?) gets caught between the reed and the slot. Plunking may help, but removing the hair is essential. Also, if a reed is off center to the slot, it can bind up. I don't know whether it would cause problems intermittently. But "something" is blocking the reed. My guess, not the valve.

Tom

[Lockjaw Larry]

Occasionally I get a silent Reed because they are set very low to the reedplate.  I just nudge it up a little and it’s playable again. 

[servus]

Thanks. I'll check for the possibility of some obstacle. No cat maybe moustache hair? An off-centered reed is a more complex matter. I have instructions for that operation from Seydel. Hopefully I won't need to jump in the cold water.

Have looked at the height of the reed. Found nothing out of the ordinary, but what do I know? The fact that the problem is not consistent is what puzzles me.

[Grizzly]

No cat maybe moustache hair?

Also possible. (See my avatar.)

T

[Rich35]

  HI ALL
 Question on Valves , How long the do the valves last till You change them?
  Do You wait for them to curl ,like on my old hohner 64 ,and valve replacement of 2 of them not Bad.
  Cleaned a couple  of my Chromatic s today ,I always warm them before playing ,but
 They seem to feel sticky real quick . cleaned them with a piece of paper back and
   and fourth under valve and between valve and stiffener  .
  Any suggestions  on better cleaning of Valves.
     Thanks

[Age]

I gotta say, that's gunna depend on the valve in particular. Some are excellent, some are okay and others suck sox, and you never know which ones you got till they act up.   I know the new one piece valves from Wally are very good (probably cuz, as "one piece" valves, it's pretty much impossible for them to buzz) so they NEVER do. I have some on my MeisterKlasse, but then, To be fair, I hardly ever play that particular axe, but they seem to be fine. What I know for sure (and most will prolly think I'm blowing smoke up your butt) is that my 13 1/2 year old Swan (that you see me playin' on the Zoomers) is still sportin' the original valves. I'm considering changing them one of these days, but they still seem to be doing fine.

I have a bunch of different valves here; many of which I've yet to try, so I'm sure ~I'll~ never run out of them, and for that same reason, neither will I never really know which are the best.

Truth be told, I just hate working on harmonicas. Last night I was up till after 3:30 rebuilding my son's $1,000 electric AR-15 BB machine gun, and I hated the job like a snake, but even that was better than working on harmonicas. I'm blessed/cursed (haven't decided yet) with the ability to fix almost anything, (whether I enjoy the job or not) but the only reason I fix my own harumkas is cuz I can't afford to pay other guys to fix them for me.

@ge

[servus]

In the meantime I've begun replacing valves, using the single piece kind DannyG was kind enough to send me. No, they don't bite, I've discovered. Still, I've managed to screw up a couple of times. When I clean reeds, I use damp coffee filter paper, pushing them between the layers. That seems to work. I've even removed a reed plate! It too didn't bite. Nevertheless, my blow low F (orchestra tuning) still likes to go mute...but only sometimes. Weird instruments.

[servus]

A short PS. So far so good. Put on a new valve on my new (used) Symphony 48, then plunked the reeds and cleaned the valves. I used cigarette papers, slightly dampened, to get into the valves. Seems to do the trick.

          PJ

[nadlerus]

Common complaint unfortunately.
A valve will affect the two notes of the chamber.
You should place a new valve.
When a note if muzzled, distorted, delayed, buzzing, etc, I replace the valve even if it looks good.
This may help:
https://youtu.be/9WEqLBvzHrQ?si=0eHyqfhkuoDp_t3a
Neil Adler

[Age]

In the meantime I've begun replacing valves, using the single piece kind DannyG was kind enough to send me. No, they don't bite, I've discovered. Still, I've managed to screw up a couple of times. When I clean reeds, I use damp coffee filter paper, pushing them between the layers. That seems to work. I've even removed a reed plate! It too didn't bite. Nevertheless, my blow low F (orchestra tuning) still likes to go mute...but only sometimes. Weird instruments.

I'll say it's weird! If all else fails, you might end up having a bad reed.

[Age]

Another thing. On weird occasions, I've had a reed that sounded funky cuz it was coming into contact with the edge of the reed chamber. (justa thought)

[servus]

Will keep observing. Today, for some odd reason, everything seemed to work. The valves looked fine, but I cleaned them anyway.

[Age]

Kewl! Can't wait to hear you on the Zoomer

[servus]

Hmm. That pesky low F# draw note still mutes...for a while. Then it works again. Otherwise all else seems to be okay. Maybe I will have to change that valve after all - even if it looks.normal. Means I'll have to remove the reed plate again. Oh well. There are worse fates. Oh, and Neil, thanks for the info. Have watched your video on valves operations at least three times already. Am ready for action.

             PJ

[MikeB]

I agree with Servus, Neil did an excellent job describing the care & maintenance of a chromatic harmonica. Brorat also has a very descriptive & organized, disassembly & reassembly he posted in the zoomer listing. With the both of those you should be overwhelmed with information.

[servus]

My list of thankyous is even longer. Besides Doug and Neil, there are Tom, Gnarly H.M.,  Age and others who didn't post. I feel like I've subscribed to the Boyscout Manual. Be prepared.

[brorat]

Even with all the details,PJ, nothing can compare to just jumping in!  There’s little you can do to an instrument that will ruin it😂. Yeah, you may have to do more work than you intended (been there!). Just be a bit careful and enjoy becoming Gnarley,Jr😂😂😱

[Gnarly He Man]

Even with all the details,PJ, nothing can compare to just jumping in!  There’s little you can do to an instrument that will ruin it😂. Yeah, you may have to do more work than you intended (been there!). Just be a bit careful and enjoy becoming Gnarley,Jr😂😂😱

I have learned much during my time on this forum.