Bleeping notes

[zvigrunb]

Didn't know how to call it.
It's a well known technique almost everyone uses.
I'll try to explain what I mean...

While playing a melody, at certain points the slider is used for a split-second
to create a kind of "bleep" or chirp that's adds much flavor to the basic tune.
Fiddler on the roof songs are a good example.
I'm trying to use it in some of the material I play but it comes out kind of awkward.
Like I can't quite put my finger on when it's to be done.

Are there any rules to this? How and when to use?
I hope my explanation is understandable.
All input will be welcome

[SlideMeister]

Like, in the key of C,  right after Tevia sings "If I were a rich man" and just before "All day long I'd biddy-biddy bump" Those bleeps, right? They're pretty easy AFTER ya learn how to do them. (like emulating some kinda middle eastern clarinet or somethin') Although the slide is used, that's not where the effect comes from. The slide is used for the #4 hole, slide-in, draw C, but only for a few nanoseconds as it slips/slurs down to the B flat. That's the blip/bleep thing your talking about, right?

[BeauKim]

Those ornaments to a melody could be called, "grace notes," "mordent," "flips (in some genres of music)," or "slide jabs (as Winslow puts it though I'm not sure if he's the originator of that term.)."   

[SlideMeister]

Yeah, they're pretty cool actually, and they seem to more common in traditional Eastern music than Western music.

@ge ><((((?>

[zvigrunb]

Like, in the key of C,  right after Tevia sings "If I were a rich man" and just before "All day long I'd biddy-biddy bump" Those bleeps, right? They're pretty easy AFTER ya learn how to do them. (like emulating some kinda middle eastern clarinet or somethin') Although the slide is used, that's not where the effect comes from. The slide is used for the #4 hole, slide-in, draw C, but only for a few nanoseconds as it slips/slurs down to the B flat. That's the blip/bleep thing your talking about, right?

Yes, seems you got it
I think some also do it on the "If". Like "Blip I were a rich man"
So, if i understand correctly...it actualy happens when you let the slide go and at the same time move to the other note? Like a precise timming thing?

[SlideMeister]

BY Golly yer right!
I plum forgot about the "If!"

@ge ><((((?>

[zvigrunb]

Still not totally clear on how it's done.
Does this effect require adding that extra "bleep". Like an additional really quick "aiding" note, or is done on the notes as is in the composition?

[Keith]

Sounds like grace notes, you don't play them in the normal sense, you just pass through them to the actual/next note.

[SlideMeister]

Still not totally clear on how it's done.
Does this effect require adding that extra "bleep". Like an additional really quick "aiding" note, or is done on the notes as is in the composition?

Actually, it's more like "missing" the regular note you want, by one hole up, and very quickly correcting it, and that's what makes the blip (or whatever) Just remember, The slower you move down to the right note, (like the "IF" in If I were a rich man) the more pronounced the blip becomes.

[Gatty1010]

Not sure if I understand you correctly for this.

We take grace notes with F (slider in, blow) while playing G note, or with C (slider in, draw) while playing D note. This needs a slight push on the harmonica with hand depending on which side the hole of the grace note is. A very quick action. With practice this comes very easily.

While playin F major or D minor scale on C harmonica it is a very quick press and release on A note to get that blip with Bb note. While playing Eb major or C minor scales on C harmonica you have several such opportunities to use slider press without going out of the scale.

[SlideMeister]

It's a bit harder, but it sounds cleaner using the holes instead of the slider. (IMO)

[Gatty1010]

Yes, you are right Age.
Adjacent holes are always easier.
We do get away with that in most places even if notation calls for F - G - E with G as a grace note for F, . I play F - A - E with A as grace note for F

I have played notations which requires to take G note with A as grace note G - A - G. This breaks the flow and most of us take C as the grace note and get away  ... there are experts who can actually take a very quick G - A - G.

There are exceptions where taking F note with A as grace note or G note with grace note as E note does not sound good. This is where this comes handy without breaking the flow.

Just one more way to overcome the challenges that the notes arrangement in harmonica presents to us.

[zvigrunb]

Actually, it's more like "missing" the regular note you want, by one hole up, and very quickly correcting it, and that's what makes the blip (or whatever) Just remember, The slower you move down to the right note, (like the "IF" in If I were a rich man) the more pronounced the blip becomes.

Thanks all and Age for the analysis.
Did some YouTubing in this as well.

I still am in the stages where I have to pretty much plan how I want to play a given tune.
I assume the more one knows his/hers way around the harp, ( Note locations more "burned" into the brain),
it becomes more intuitive when and where to incorporate it "on the fly".
Am I correct?

[SlideMeister]

"it becomes more intuitive when and where to incorporate it "on the fly".
Am I correct?"

Definitely! When you can just do in intuitively, it means you have the technique "nailed" and that also means it's gunna sound pretty "natural."

I'd go so far as to say: Making tricky stuff sound easy as shakin' a stick is what professionalism is all about. 

[zvigrunb]

I've begun to practice it on Fiddlers "Sunrise Sunset". Honestly I don't even know what key I'm in but it sounds fine to me. No backing track. In certain points where I find these grace notes to work nicely, I've tried fast slide usage compared to a bit slower approach.

Both sound alright, though the slower, more pronounced as you said, feels better. Like it can actually be sung as part of the vocals. Maybe because the song itself is a slow piece.

[SlideMeister]

Okay, what is the first hole (blow or draw - button in or out) you play that starts with Tev singing the word: "Is?"

[zvigrunb]

Okay, what is the first hole (blow or draw - button in or out) you play that starts with Tev singing the word: "Is?"

This is this initial sequence:

Is - 3 draw
This- 5 draw
The - 6 blow slide/ 6 draw
Little - 6 blow 5 draw
Girl - 5 blow slide
I - 6 blow
Carr - 5 draw
Ied - 3 draw

I'm using an A keyed chrom.
Sequence of course can be "copy paste" to a C.

[Gnarly He Man]

So you are playing in the key of Bm on an A.
Do it on a C, and you are in Dm.

[zvigrunb]

So you are playing in the key of Bm on an A.
Do it on a C, and you are in Dm.

Thanks!
Is there a method to figure it out?
Someone told me to try and find where the "Do" is.
This seems kind of hit and miss...

[Gnarly He Man]

Most songs end on Do.

[zvigrunb]

Most songs end on Do.

Interesting.

But how can someone like me, who doesn't yet have all key patterns ingraved in my mind, know if the final note is the Do of what I'm playing and not a note from another key?

In other words - Suppose one is playing most of the notes in C on a C chrom, with a couple of accidentals, is it still C or something else? How is it judged? By majority of notes? I understand If ALL notes played comply exactly with one of the given paterns. But once they begin getting mixed up, how can you tell?

[Gnarly He Man]

I don't know how to answer your question.
Perhaps another list member can help.

[Keith]

I think what Gnarly/Gary is saying, is that the last note of a tune is usually the key note of the originating key.

If you start in the key of C, then the last note will be a C - if you start in the key of A, the last note will be A, etc.

[zvigrunb]

Every answer appreciated

With all the endless numbers of musical pieces out their,
this sounds like a matter of statistics.

Also, the player can change that last note to suit his/hers taste.
There can be various ways to end a melody and all sound good.

I'm wondering if there's a systematic method to determine the key.

[John Broecker]

The key signature is the systemic way
to determine the key of a tune/song.

But the key signature lists the major
scale and the relative natural minor
scale with the same key signature.

As written above in another post,
the ending note of a melody can
determine the key of the tune.

But tunes often change keys. The
tune/song may have multiple keys.

Another way to determine the key
of a tune/song, is the first full
measure. If the melody notes are
mostly spellings of one chord, that
chord is the key of the tune/song.

If we use all of the above listed
requirements, we may be almost
certain to find the key of the tune/
song.

I prefer to use the key signature
or chord symbol of the first measure.

Best Regards, Stay Healthy

JB

[Gnarly He Man]

“ Also, the player can change that last note to suit his/hers taste.”
I tried ending all my melodies on the flat five.
That was not received well.
“What are they going to do, fire me?”
Yes.

[drlaugh]

Is this the same as a chime / Chirp ending note followed by adding notes on both sides one at a time?

[zvigrunb]

“ Also, the player can change that last note to suit his/hers taste.”
I tried ending all my melodies on the flat five.
That was not received well.
“What are they going to do, fire me?”
Yes.