Time - The next step (an opinion piece)

[SlideMeister]

I always try not to confuse rhythm with timing; turns out they're not the same. Rhythm is what makes a drummer start and end a number at exactly 78 bpm, timing is starting and ending a note on the right beat.

Okay, the first thing we wanna do is get the notes right, right?

Timing, is putting those notes in the right order. I think the basics of musical timing is a lot like paratroopers jumping out of a plane; jump too fast and you land on the guy your following. (disaster) Jump too late, and you separate yourself from the squad. (not good either) Jump when you're supposed to and everything goes well (unless of course, ya land in a tree  )

I see the mark of an amateur, not as much as his "missed notes," but his missing a beat and starting a phrase too early. Even professionals who can quickly recover from "klinker, clam or farkle" can't fix "starting a phrase two beats early" Nope! Can't be done! That's like "farting in church" Everyone hears it, and ya can't take it back! The problem arises when the player doesn't realize he/she did it. Here's where Simon's Cowell's statement: "Everyone thinks they're better than they are" comes into play, because as it turns out; it's not always easy to fix, especially with older players, so I always tell folks "Don't worry, you can clean up your articulation later and get all the notes right; but you better nail your timing down now, cuz it's harder to fix after you've done it "rong" for a bunch of years." (sometimes it's impossible )

I know metronomes are froggy, but that annoying "TICK-TOCK-TICK-TOCK!" is usually just about brutal enough to teach you what timing is all about.

A lotta players have the impression that little "ornaments," bends, "chokes," and button flutters, effects and stuff are more important that the boring old "one-two-three-four" They're not! There ain't no short cuts to good timing.

[robertpcoble]

I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that I've relayed this story before, but it bears repeating in this context.

Over 15 years ago, I started a small harmonica club locally. I had my older brother (keyboards) and a cousin (upright bass) as the backup rhythm section. Both were lifelong professional musicians. We played together as a gospel trio at churches and rest homes. (I was the 'newbie' musician.)

I usually tried to 'teach' some things at the beginning of each meeting. One night, I decided to emphasize WHY timing is so important, much more important IMHO than hitting all the 'right' notes. I asked my rhythm section to play something simple, like 'Mary Had A Little Lamb' without embellishment. I told the members that I was going to play through the song twice. The first time, I was going to play 'around' the melody, never hitting the 'right' notes, just improvising whatever I thought would work with that tune. The second time, I was going to play all the 'right' notes strictly as in the melody but I was going to 'mess' with the timing, either starting a note too soon or too late.

We played through the first iteration, and I was all over the harmonica, never playing the actual melody notes, BUT IN TIME. At the end, everybody congratulated me, saying that it sounded like jazz. (Silly me: I didn't even consider that as a possibility since I play bluegrass.)

I reiterated that the second iteration would be a demonstration of BAD timing. We began and it took less than 4 bars for everybody to clap their hands over their ears and yell for us to stop the noise.

I think that's about the simplest way to illustrate the relative importance of TIMING vice 'right' notes.

Crazy Bob

[brorat]

Full disclosure:  I'm NOT a professional musician ... or even semi-pro!
However, I've been involved in music since I was born.  Sung in church choirs and glee clubs for most of my life.  I can "read" music from sheet music well enough to sing parts, but I've learned most of what I know through just doing it.
Having said that, I really think that "timing'' is something that some people innately have a "feel" for, and others just don't!  I've known people who have ZERO musical ability or training who could dance like nobody's business.  Dancing requires a knowledge of the timing of the music.  Otherwise, you end up looking a bit idiotic.
Of course, I also believe that people can be trained to be better at timing ... by using aids like metronomes, etc.  I remember in one church choir I was in, the director would have all of the choir "count" their part in unison.  Not that easy!

So, yes.  I think timing is critical.  But I really do think some people just have a natural ability for feeling the timing, and others have to work hard to achieve success at it.

[SlideMeister]

My daughter can't sing a note cuz she can't hear a note; she's deaf (-92 db) however, she can dance just fine. That's rhythm. 

[Lockjaw Larry]

A few days ago while driving in our beautiful West Virginia mountains, listening to some XM music, signal was lost for a few seconds.  When the signal returned and the song continued I realized I was mentally playing along and in time with the music.  That became a game while honing my timing skills.  During a song I know I turn off the volume while continuing playing the tune.  In a few seconds I turn the volume back up to compare my timing with the Song.  Try that and be amazed with your accuracy-or inaccuracy.  It can become ones comeuppance.

Maybe I just started a new exercise in our wood shedding.  Or maybe not. 

[SlideMeister]

That was one of the only things good about the "disco" craze . When driving down the road, I used to say: "Watch this!" Then I'd start stomping my foot on the floor, and two seconds later, turn on the radio, and sure enough; same beat!

[Grizzly]

It's easy to confuse musical terms. Rhythm isn't tempo (speed), timing isn't rhythm (combination of fast and slow notes). But Age is spot on about the importance of timing (keeping a steady beat). One choir I'm in regularly "sings the numbers" in time with the beat. Great exercise, and very effective.

It's impossible to play along with a dominant player who adds or drops beats in a jam. The sad thing is that they're so unaware of the concept. To say, "I only play for myself" is no excuse, even alone.

It's one of the dangers of trying to play an inadequately remembered tune from tabs. The chances of getting it right are miniscule. Try to join others later , and you'll either be lost or throw everyone else off.

Learn to count. Of all the basic musical skills, it's the most important.

Tom

[John Broecker]

Here's a drummer's definition of

Timing = playing before the pulse (meter);
              playing with the pulse;
              playing after the pulse.

Rhythm = note and rest durations (long, medium, short, etc.).

Tempo = pulses per minute (slow, medium, fast, etc.)

There it is.  Avoid all substitutes.

JB

[Grizzly]

Cindy emailed me some musical definitions (source unidentified) 4years ago. I'll put them in "Nonsense."

Tom

[Scotty]

A few days ago while driving in our beautiful West Virginia mountains, listening to some XM music, signal was lost for a few seconds.  When the signal returned and the song continued I realized I was mentally playing along and in time with the music.  That became a game while honing my timing skills.  During a song I know I turn off the volume while continuing playing the tune.  In a few seconds I turn the volume back up to compare my timing with the Song.  Try that and be amazed with your accuracy-or inaccuracy.  It can become ones comeuppance.

Maybe I just started a new exercise in our wood shedding.  Or maybe not.

Nope, sorry Larry: LOL - I just posted about this very recently. My 'going through a long tunnel' analogy. I do the same except either sing or play and see if I'm right on time with the song or instrumental as we come back out the end of the tunnel. I nail it every time, which usually floors whomever is in the car with us. I agree with Age: timing is everything (except for the metronome which I HATE with a passion, lol--having been forced to use one as a child by my piano teacher). I seem to have an inborn sense of timing...or it's just the thousands of songs which have been imprinted into my brain's computer banks which keep me on point. :

scotty

[streetlegal]

Like it or not - a metronome is always - repeat always - on time . Drummers and musicians - not so much!

[drlaugh]

This reminds me of a rehearsal shere our leader stopped everyone and said LISTEN people, our sound is verry muddy.
Playing welm with ithers is as important in s band as it is in ghe sand box.
#AsDrLaughSeesIt

[beads]

Scotty, it is possible that all that time spent with that hated metronome may have contributed to the perfect timing you enjoy today. I was taught to count out time when learning and today I have pretty good timing without much thinking about it. Learning basics early is boring but reaps rewards.

[SlideMeister]

How about this? (I just thought it ) We hate metronomes cuz they're loud, rude, nagging, impersonal things that can't be argued with, when they remind us of our inherent lack of patience.   Yep! Dat's it!

[Grizzly]

During a song I know I turn off the volume while continuing playing the tune.  In a few seconds I turn the volume back up to compare my timing with the Song.  Try that and be amazed with your accuracy-or inaccuracy.  It can become ones comeuppance. [snips]

I supply my choir members a sound track to record to so I can assemble their submissions into an anthem for Sunday services over Zoom. I very often include a click track to help them keep the beat. One singer thought she could keep track on her own, but she strayed from the tempo within a couple of measures. I couldn't us her recording. After that she complied with the protocol.

The technique isn't foolproof, but my singers have gotten much better while we produced over 20 anthems to present to our congregation. They can't hear each other for blend or pitch, but at least they're together!

Tom

[Grizzly]

How about this? (I just thought it ) We hate metronomes cuz they're loud, rude, nagging, impersonal things that can't be argued with, when they remind us of our inherent lack of patience.   Yep! Dat's it!

LOL! Playing along with a metronome isn't so much to teach you to keep the beat, as it's a confirmation that you're doing things right—as annoying and frustrating as it is sometimes.

My predecessor as choir director tried to get us to stay together by playing a metronome while she conducted us. She got off after a few bars, completely negating her intentions. The frustrations for us was that she kept trying it.

The best use for a metronome, especially in an ensemble, is to use it to set the tempo, then turn it off and play and/or sing. Setting the tempo is different from keeping the beat.

Tom

[Bernie9]

" Setting the tempo is different from keeping the beat."

Hoping the twain shall meet somewhere down the road.

[John Broecker]

Back in the 1980s-'90s, there was a percussion
product called the Beat Bug.

It was a clip-on "speedometer", with an LCD
read-out, displaying the performer's tempo:
how fast, medium or slow he/she was playing.
It clipped onto a drum or other instrument.

Most live music isn't played in-tempo for the
entire tune. The tempo is usually flexible.
If one keeps the tempo with 100% accuracy,
while the other group members are floating,
the music can become sterile, boring.

I almost bought a Beat Bug, to defend my
drummer's internal click track, but decided

metronome? we don't need no stinking
metronome!

Spring-wound metronomes don't always
keep 100% tempo accuracy. They tend to
slow down after a few minutes, when the
spring winds down.

Electronic metronomes are more accurate,
and some models have a blinking light,
to visually show the tempo.

Best Regards, Stay Healthy

JB

[Grizzly]

Most live music isn't played in-tempo for the
entire tune. The tempo is usually flexible.
If one keeps the tempo with 100% accuracy,
while the other group members are floating,
the music can become sterile, boring.

Amen to that, John. Get the initial speed, then let the hive mind of the ensemble keep them together. My church pianist and I (on flute or harmonica) stay together, phrase together, without even looking. But we agree on an initial tempo before we play. "Any sufficiently advanced [musical] technology (aka skill) is indistinguishable from a rigged demo magic." (attr. to Arthur C. Clarke)

Tom

[Keith]

I've had a KORG MA-1 Metronome for years, bought it when I started playing the Uke, but seldom used it.

It's about the size of a credit card, but thicker, great little 'nome, if you're thinking of getting one, even has an earphone socket!

[streetlegal]

An alternative to a metronome which I recently discovered is to play with a delay effect - I was using a delay pedal with my guitar. Because the delay effect is constant it can kind of create a beat or pulse a bit like a metronome, but in a more subtle way beneath my playing - so I could hear if I was keeping in line with this pulse or not.

[Scotty]

Scotty, it is possible that all that time spent with that hated metronome may have contributed to the perfect timing you enjoy today. I was taught to count out time when learning and today I have pretty good timing without much thinking about it. Learning basics early is boring but reaps rewards.

Your theory might be correct, Beads...IF I kept it on long enough after my weekly half-hour sessions with my piano teacher ended. Afraid I never did. I couldn't stand the thing, so stopped it whenever she exited, leaving me with 'homework'. Funnily,
she never knew. She didn't teach 'counting out time', thankfully, since I believe that would have driven me bonkers, hahaha.
I don't need distractions from what I'm listening to inside my head. Even Mrs. Lee couldn't comprehend what I was describing to her...thought I was being 'fanciful'. After a couple of years my mother decided the cost wasn't worth it since none of my older siblings could play piano at all and I still played whatever I heard.

scotty

[kvanbael]

Back in the 1980s-'90s, there was a percussionist
product called the Beat Bug

Nowadays there’s apps for that. I personally use LiveBPM. It detects the beat through the microphone and displays a graph on how the tempo is drifting. Funny when you use it on the radio: most songs since nineties are dead-on straight. Must be the “click track” metronome they use in music studios.

I doubt it’ll work well on solo harmonica though, but great for band practice.

[drlaugh]

Memories of past rehearsals

If you are going to play with us, play with us.

STOP - Listen to each other, It’s getting muddy up here.

[Gnarly He Man]

An alternative to a metronome which I recently discovered is to play with a delay effect - I was using a delay pedal with my guitar. Because the delay effect is constant it can kind of create a beat or pulse a bit like a metronome, but in a more subtle way beneath my playing - so I could hear if I was keeping in line with this pulse or not.

Looping improves your timing.

[frankyb]

I always try not to confuse rhythm with timing; turns out they're not the same. Rhythm is what makes a drummer start and end a number at exactly 78 bpm, timing is starting and ending a note on the right beat.

Okay, the first thing we wanna do is get the notes right, right?

Timing, is putting those notes in the right order. I think the basics of musical timing is a lot like paratroopers jumping out of a plane; jump too fast and you land on the guy your following. (disaster) Jump too late, and you separate yourself from the squad. (not good either) Jump when you're supposed to and everything goes well (unless of course, ya land in a tree  )...

Good advice Age!  I agree on how bad "missing a beat and starting a phrase too early." is. I feel that if you are going to mess it up, it's better to hold the note too long than cut it short.  (I think you said something like that in a past post, when commenting on a melody I played and posted).  I believe cutting the note off too soon leaves the listener cheated, feeling that something is missing, whereas hanging on to the note too long, may be bothersome, but leaves the listener relieved when you end it, as you are getting on with it.    Of course, playing it for the proper length of time and ending the phrase when it should be ended is best.

[Scotty]

I've had a KORG MA-1 Metronome for years, bought it when I started playing the Uke, but seldom used it.

It's about the size of a credit card, but thicker, great little 'nome, if you're thinking of getting one, even has an earphone socket!

I bought one of those some time back, Keith - but have never taken it out of the box, LOL. (My bad).

scotty