More on Larry Adlers sound

[zvigrunb]

One of his trademark sounds (to my ear) is a note coupled with a chord, and it sounds like the main note is sustained with minimun to no vibrato, while the chord part pulsates.

I've tried to listen very carefully, maybe its just the overall vibrato that gives the effect. Maybe not. I'm trying to emulate that sound but can't get it.

Incase I haven't explained it well,
Here are two examples where it can be heard.
Mainly at the first few seconds of the pieces.
Any input would be appreciated

[SlideMeister]

Nothin' from this cranky old SlideMeister guy. I only listened to twenty seconds of the first one to confirm that I still don't like his style at all.
Now, here's the exact sound that makes me swoon: (just imagine a young engineer, wearing Levies and a T-shirt, and a goatee, with a full head of hair, (me) playing a 64 between moves, and you'll know what my firemen had to put up with  )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnr60fsJAxY

[zvigrunb]

Nothin' from this old guy. I only listened to twenty seconds of the first one to confirm that I still don't like his style at all.

Ok.. I know your stand
But seriously, If you have an idea how he produces that sound I'd like to know.
And I promise not to post anymore of his videos.
Scouts honor

[Danny G]

Sharing Larry Adler pleases you (and me too)
After watching a few seconds of Larry playing it pleases Age to say "I still don't like his style at all. "
Ricky Nelson said "If you can't please everyone, then you gotta' please yourself.

https://youtu.be/qAamKnAvnNs

[zvigrunb]

What's fair is fair... Age, Gotta give ya credit for those few seconds

Still I'd like to figure out his chord/note mixture technique

[beads]

That second one was very nice. I was even more impressed at the end when the applause made me realize it was live.
I don't know about the wavering chord. Chromatics have doubled key notes. Two reeds sounding the same note can do that, but I have no idea if that's part of it.

[Swatne]

Adler played with a LOT of hand vibrato - I believe that’s what you’re hearing.  When I saw him live, his hands were busy.  I always liked his sound, but there’s others I like even more. 

Swatne.

[SlideMeister]

Nothin' from this old guy. I only listened to twenty seconds of the first one to confirm that I still don't like his style at all.

Ok.. I know your stand
But seriously, If you have an idea how he produces that sound I'd like to know.
And I promise not to post anymore of his videos.
Scouts honor

Nah! You can post all you like. I just like cracking everyones eggs by saying I never liked his playing.

[SlideMeister]

Adler played with a LOT of hand vibrato - I believe that’s what you’re hearing.  When I saw him live, his hands were busy.  I always liked his sound, but there’s others I like even more. 

Swatne.

I like "sweet," (no, I actually LOVE "sweet") and Adler's always sounded nasal and brash, honking, cutting and biting, with all the finesse of a jack-hammer, and his hand acrobatics made him look like he was trying to fly off the stage.

Aside from the high notes, (cuz they all sound pretty much the same regardless of who plays them) his treatment of the low notes (where all the "Chromatic personality comes from) always sounded obnoxious to me. His articulation was superlative, but it always sounded to me like he just played everything too hard. I say this cuz when I play real hard (like someone will buy me a new harmonica as soon as I wear this one out) my tone kinda sounds like his, and I embarrass meself.

Yep! That's MPO.

[zvigrunb]

Age, as much as I admire Adlers style and virtuosity,
I agree, and have heard some pieces of his that sound to strong to me too. A good example is his rendition of "Our love is here to stay". In THAT piece that "honk" does sound obnoxious.
In others, it's a cool "shu bap shu bap" replacement.

But, he has many pieces like the examples above. There are plenty of even more softer ones on YouTube. You're probably familiar with all of them.

Take this one for instance (That pulsation can also be heard here)

https://youtu.be/kNuJJSzJFVE

While those lower notes are quite strong, I feel they emulate strong bow movement on a cello or of sorts. Anyway, obnoxious or not, I wish I had a thousandth of his ability.

Argg .. where going into that debate again.
Not what I intended  Just to technically analyze what he's doing

[zvigrunb]

Adler played with a LOT of hand vibrato - I believe that’s what you’re hearing.  When I saw him live, his hands were busy.  I always liked his sound, but there’s others I like even more. 

Swatne.

That's what I used to think.
But check this out. Same effect with no hand vibrato.
Notice seconds from 0.50

https://youtu.be/OUEWBlp7Gac

[The Lone Harper]

While there are times that I didn't like some of the sounds and effects he produced I still regard Adler as an absolute master of tone on the chromatic harmonica. Love it or hate it, the majority of the time his tone was rich and full unlike the comparatively thin tone that the majority of other chromatic players achieve. As Stan Harper (who was no fan of Adler's playing) said in one of his workshops at SPAH, you could tell from the very first note on one of his recordings that it was Adler who was playing. I often wonder if Adler wasn't either consciously or unconsciously trying to emulate the rich tones he was hearing from some of the horn players he would perform with.

[zvigrunb]

Ok, been listening over and over and trying and my conclusion is that's it's simply vibrato on a chord or double stop. No more. Be it by hand or tongue.
No special secret.

My analysis:
What happens is the lower frequencies in the bunch sound more "Wa Wa", while the highers sound more consistent. It's an audio physics doppler phenomenon something.

So, if the highest in the group is the lead note, it gives that audible illusion I'm talking about. A pulsation accompanying chord to a SEEMINGLY non vibrating note.

Hmmm.... another stepping stone

[zvigrunb]

I often wonder if Adler wasn't either consciously or unconsciously trying to emulate the rich tones he was hearing from some of the horn players he would perform with.

I very much think he was deliberately attempting to do that. If I'm not mistaken he said it himself or wrote about it in a book.

[John Broecker]

In his songbook, Larry Adler Harmonica Favorites,
Folio #1 (1943), Robbins Music Corp. publisher,
Larry describes his techniques for imitating sounds
of musical instruments other than harmonica sounds.

He does mention saxophones & brasses, but mostly
a few woodwinds, organs and strings.

He also describes his techniques for playing harmonica
chords; dead tones; double stops; glissando; growl;
octaves; phrasing; runs; shiver or twittering; sliding
and slurring; staccato; trill; triple-tonguing; vibrato
(or tremolo); and wah-wah effects.

If you want the information, I'll publish it, here.

Best Regards, Stay Healthy

JB

[zvigrunb]

In his songbook, Larry Adler Harmonica Favorites,
Folio #1 (1943), Robbins Music Corp. publisher,
Larry describes his techniques for imitating sounds
of musical instruments other than harmonica sounds.

He doesn't mention saxophones or brasses, only
a few woodwinds and strings.

He also describes his techniques for playing harmonica
chords; dead tones; double stops; glissando; growl;
octaves; phrasing; runs; shiver or twittering; sliding
and slurring; staccato; trill; triple-tonguing; vibrato
(or tremolo); and wah-wah effects.

If you want the information, I'll publish it, here.

Best Regards, Stay Healthy

JB

JB, I'm very interested in this.
Can you publish it here?
Or perhaps you have a copy of the book I can purchase?

[beads]

Being heard was an issue back in his early days.  Acoustic guitars used large arch top boxes and very heavy gauge strings to be heard on stage with horns. Perhaps he developed his technique in order to project sound? Today we have high tech directional microphones that reject stage noise. We can get right on top of those and play easy. Perhaps he didn't have that luxury.

[Gnarly He Man]

http://artdaane.org/hbibus.html
This details the origins of the Harmonetta, invented by a personal friend of Adler’s who was offended by Larry’s use of the wrong chords.
As my mother used to say, “Some people like raisin pie”.

[John Broecker]

Hello, Tzvika.

I have a copy of the book, but I don't
want to sell it. I'll publish the 2 pages
of info, here.

The information is in short paragraphs,
with no musical exercises. The book,
sold for $2.95 in 1943, has 24 pages of
harmonica songs and short comments;
and 39 pages of the same tunes with
piano accompaniment.

This songbook was written almost 80
years ago, so some of the information
may be incorrect.

It might require more than one page of
internet space, so it will be published in
separate posts if needed.

The words published are Larry's. Comments
by me are listed between { and } signs, for
clarity. The details are stated for use on a
standard 3-octave, 12-hole slide chromatic
harmonica, factory-tuned in C.

LARRY ADLER HARMONICA FAVORITES,
Folio No. 1; pages 2 and 3; Page 2:

GLOSSARY OF TERMS

Chords: When more than 2 notes are
sounded together, that is a chord.  A chord,
when used correctly, should always be in
correct harmony. The old-fashioned way of
playing harmonica was to provide a constant
rhythmic background of chords, even though
these chords had no harmonic relationship
to the melody. This was known as "vamping",
and became outmoded with the invention of
the chromatic harmonica. It is still used, in
hill-billy playing.

"Dead" Tone: A note played without vibrato
of any kind. Usually, the hands form a tight
sound box over the instrument.

Double Stops: Two notes sounded together.
These may be two adjacent notes, as in holes
1 & 2, or they may be widely separated, as holes
1 & 6. If they are separated, the tongue must
block off the un-played holes, so that they will
not spoil the double stop effect. Never use a
double stop unless it is harmonically correct. 
This applies also to chords. The wrong chords,
far from helping, merely stamp the player as
a poor musician.

Glissando (Gliss.): Playing a run of notes in
chromatic succession, but so rapidly that hardly
a break between each note can be detected. This
appears {on the sheet music} as ( / )between
notes or on a single note; or ( \ ) between notes,
or on a single note.

Growl: A good effect, but it is to be used sparingly.
It is produced by rolling the "r" sound, similar to the
Scotch pronunciation of "b-r-r-r-". It is especially good in
blues tunes. The best growl sound is made by exhaling into
the first 4 holes of the harmonica, while cupping the hands
to produce a deep sound chamber. A very light "growl" can
be used on very high single notes, and sounds like a flute.
The growl is indicated {on the music} by a (~~~~~).

Octaves: An octave is one note combined with the
same note {spelling} eight scale steps higher or lower.
On the harmonica, octaves are usually four holes apart.
The first octave on the harmonica, for example, is middle
C to the C above middle C. To get it, you must play holes
1 and 4, or holes 1 and 5 (because holes 4 and 5 are both
C when exhaled), and block off the notes E and G in holes
2 and 3, by placing the tongue against them. This requires
a lot of practice before it sounds smooth, but the extra
depth of tone gained makes it well worth while.

That's all for now. More information tomorrow.

Best Regards, Stay Healthy

JB

[zvigrunb]

Thanks John!!
Looking forward for more

[John Broecker]

Hello, Larry Adler Fans.

This is part 2 of the Glossary of Terms,
as written by harmonica icon Larry Adler
(1914-2001), in his songbook, Larry Adler,
Harmonica Favorites, Folio #1, (1943),
as originally published by Robbins Music Corp.,
New York City.

Part 1 was published here at SlideMeister,
yesterday. Additional parts will be published
here, for the complete Glossary of Terms,
and a part on Instrumental Effects will be
included.

The songbook and these glossary terms were
written for a standard 12-hole, solo system
slide chromatic harmonica factory-installed
in the key of C.

Larry 's early career was one of self-instruction,
until about age 44 (a guess). In performance with
symphonies, he first memorized the music melody,
as performed by a pianist. He couldn't read music.

At one performance with an Australian symphony,
the conductor asked him about his performance
in a selected part of the music score. Larry whispered
to the conductor, "I don't read music". The conductor
replied, "that's what I thought", or a similar wording.

It convinced Larry to learn to read music.

Some of Larry's musical ideas were not always musically
correct, until he started lessons with a music teacher.

The words written here are Larry's, except where
I have added comments for clarity, as between
the signs { and }.

GLOSSARY OF TERMS: Part 2

Phrasing: The art of making whatever you play
sound musical, with feeling and without apparent strain.
Puffing laboriously through a tune would undoubtedly
lead to bad phrasing. Good phrasing implies a smooth
combination of runs, effects and melody, without harsh
breaks in breath or rhythm.

Run: A group of notes meant to be played smoothly
and rapidly, usually a variation on the melody.

Shiver or Twittering: This effect, rather like the
shimmering strings of the Kostalanetz' orchestra, is
best on the first four notes. Playing the chord, and with
the hands half-open, say (silently) "diddle-liddle-liddle"
into the instrument. The effect is quite lovely.

Sliding or slurring: Approaching a note from below. One
way of doing this is to "blue" {bend} the note, meaning
to compress the reed with a forced breath, so that it sounds
almost a 1/2 tone flat, then allowing it to return to normal
pitch by decreasing the wind pressure. This is a good effect
on blues tunes, is usually out of place in a classical melody.
It also is bad for the reed itself. {On sheet music}, the "slide"
is indicated by ( up to a note.

Staccato: Hitting a note very sharply, and releasing it at once.
This is indicated {on sheet music} by a dot over the note.

Trill: One note and the next half step, alternating in quick
succession. The chromatic lever at the right end of the harmonica
is used for this effect. This is such a good effect, so easy to achieve,
and sounding so "flashy", that the player is usually tempted to overdo
it. Trills will help you only if used sparingly, otherwise it's repetition
will become monotonous. This is indicated {on music} as ( tr~~~~~~).

More information tomorrow.

Best Regards, Stay Healthy

JB

[streetlegal]

Of Larry Adler, it might be said that he was a master of every possible harmonica technique we can think of - and of a number of other 'impossible' techniques that no-one else thought of .

[zvigrunb]

Of Larry Adler, it might be said that he was a master of every possible harmonica technique we can think of - and of a number of other 'impossible' techniques that no-one else thought of .

I've always said he maximizes usage of the instrument to it's fullest.
Especialy in his earlier recordings.
I'm a bit less thrilled from his more classical/Gershwin oriented era, although still amazed.

[zvigrunb]

John, The Glossary of terms mainly describe/define the effects.
So regarding WHAT they are, we pretty much know.

Does Adler, anywhere, share how HE himself uses them?
Self analasys of his own renditons? How he approached a piece?
Why the key he decided to play it in? Where HE used double stops and chords e.t.c
Or how he did <<those>> effects in <<that>> piece.

In short - Letting us inside his head, sharing actual tips and ideas from his own mastery.
That's what I'd like to know.

[John Broecker]

Hello, Tzvika.

In the songbook, each tune has
performance instructions on how
to achieve a selected technique
or techniques of the tune, and
possibly Larry's reasons for their
usage, and his observations.

Printing the performance comments
here, would be would be too lengthy,
and outside of the scope of this
posting.

Check your photocopy of the songbook,
Larry Adler: His Harmonica Arrangements
& How to Play Them. It has performance
comments for each tune.

More Glossary listings later today.

JB

[zvigrunb]

Hi John,
Thanks for clarifying.
I actually haven't yet gotten around to read the book in depth. I hope to make the time before pension

[John Broecker]

Here's part 3 of the Glossary of Terms,
written by Larry Adler, in his songbook,
Larry Adler, Harmonica Favorites, Folio
No.1 (1943)

The glossary parts 1 & 2 were posted here
in earlier texts.

The words written here are Mr. Adler's,
but I've added text for clarity, within the
signs { and }.

GLOSSARY OF TERMS, Part 3:

Triple-tonguing: Exactly like the
triple-tonguing of a trumpet as heard
in a military band, or as used in the
style of the late Hal Kemp. While
playing the note or chord, you whisper
rather than utter the sound, "diddle-la
diddle-la" very sharply. This gives you
the dry staccato quality of a triple-
tongued trumpet.

Vibrato (or tremolo): The hands form
a sound box, and the note played becomes
louder and softer as the hands are opened
and closed. When this is done using a fluid
hand motion, the sound is very pleasant,
reminiscent of a violin. If the hand motion
is too slow, or otherwise exaggerated, the
sound is harsh. The effect produced by bad
hand motion is a sort of "oo-wah---oo-wah".

Wah-wah: An effect comparable to
opening and muting of brasses. To obtain
the wah-wah effect, form a tight sound
chamber with the hands, then open and
close them in the rhythm of the selection
played. Best on "hot" numbers with low
chords.  The wah-wah is sometimes written
with ( + and o ) signs {in the sheet music}.
The ( + ) sign over a note means it is to be
played with hands closed over the harmonica;
the ( o ) sign over a note means it is to be
played with hands opened.

INSTRUMENTAL EFFECTS

{These effects are used to imitate musical
instruments other than harmonicas}

'Cello: Same as oboe, but used between
holes 1 and 3. The low reeds are able to
stand the strain of this effect better than the
higher reeds, because the latter are smaller,
and therefore more delicate.

Clarinet: Same as 'cello effect, but used
on the inhaled notes of holes 9, 10 and 11.
It should be used very sparingly, as these
reeds are extremely delicate and vulnerable.

Flute: The higher notes, played softly,
and played with a very light hand vibrato.

French Horn: A "dead tone" (see the Glossary)
used in the first 3 holes, when played in single
notes.

Oboe: Secured by covering one hole at a time
with the mouth, instead of the usual four holes. 
A hard constant breath and a medium tongue
vibrato is used. You should remember, however,
that this effect produces a great strain on the
reed, and greatly shortens it's useful life. The
effect is at it's best on any of the notes from
holes 4 through 7.

Organ: Any 3-, 4-, or 5-tone chord, played
with an even breath and a rapid hand vibrato,
can, with practice, be made to sound like an
organ.

Violin: The ordinary hand vibrato, coupled with
a medium breath. There should be no apparent
difference between the inhaled and exhaled tones:
your audience should never be able to detect your
change of breathing. Cover 4 holes with the tongue
blocking off the unwanted notes, as the violin effect
requires a single note playing only.

That's it: the Glossary and Instrumental Effects as
used by Larry Adler, in his songbook: Larry Adler-
Harmonica Favorites. I hope that this information
is useful to slide chromatic harmonica players.[/i]

Best Regards, Stay Healthy

John Broecker
Sussex, Wisconsin, USA

[wolfman]

 That's some  stuff John,thanks.

  ROman

[John Broecker]

Hello, Roman.

It's great to read your posts.
Thanks for the compliments.

The Glossary and Instrumental
Effects listings are the words of
the Master, Larry Adler.

I just pass the words along.

Best Regards, Stay Healthy

JB

[zvigrunb]

Oboe: Secured by covering one hole at a time
with the mouth, instead of the usual four holes…

Violin: …Cover 4 holes with the tongue
blocking off the unwanted notes, as the violin effect
requires a single note playing only.
 

So can we deduce that he was actually a tongue blocker, while he claims to be a puckerer?
Did he switch to mainly TB at a later age...?
Or...did he.... lie?
Was he purposely misleading us so we couldn't crack his secrets?
Maybe he secretly was a KGB agent...that's why McCarthy gave him a hard time.

LA - Pucker or TB...?
He took the answer with him to the grave...