TONE

[streetlegal]

I would think that the tone experienced by the player when playing differs quite a lot from the tone experienced by the listener. Because the instrument is in the player's face and right between the ears - so a lot of frequencies are heard (and felt) by the player that never reach the listener's ears. So ear plugs can help to dampen the sound somewhat for the player or a piece of material held over the harmonica can also smooth out the tone as experienced by the player.

[SlideMeister]

Unless you you have the volume cranked to "dangerous levels" earbuds aren't gunna give you an honest sampling of your tone, cuz a lot of the sound is still coming through your noggin. The best thing is still to record it with a decent mic, or even a cellphone in an open area. What you hear there is your real tone.

[The Lone Harper]

Tommy Morgan discussing tone;

[Carl Bakker]

I don't think anyone here commented on what I last wrote.

When I played for her in her last years, she was amazed at all the different sound colors, styles and articulations I got from my Hohner Super 64.  ----

I also vary tempos within a piece, vary the articulations, etc.

I believe that these variations make music appear "alive", and they are important for me to "express myself" when playing. The harmonica is better suitable for this than, for instance, the piano (though pianists would possibly disagree). For me, Klezmer-type music is ideal for experimenting with articulations etc.. The old Super 64 or the CX12 are particularly good for shaping the tone, in my opinion.

Alfred Brendel, a famous pianist and Beethoven expert, once pointed out that the tempo designations in Beetohoven's compositions are only valid for the first line but not for the rest of the piece.
I once heard about an experiment in which school classes were taken to a classical concert, and the kids were asked afterwords about what they liked best. Most of them said that they were impressed by the music going from almost silent (with only some violins playing pianissimo, for instance), to full fortissimo (with brass instruments etc.).

I also came across a Youtube video made by a drummer or percussionist who had analyzed various classical concert recordings, and who criticized that not even the best conductors were unable to keep the rhythm or tempo, or that triplets were played unevenly, etc..... I think he has failed to understand the whole purpose of this music. I think it was Andrés Segovia who once said that musical interpretation should be like life itself.

Music nowadays is often played at the same loudness level and with the same tempo (bpm) from beginning to the end, which makes it sound neutral (or boring) to me, lacking liveliness or personal, human touch.

[zvigrunb]

Sometimes one will want the cupped sound, sometimes the open bright sound.
It all depends.

Only several days ago I've had another "revelation".
I've been struggling for a long time getting clean resonant notes, smoothly moving back and forth...
My lips would always stick frequently, messing up my accuracy, mainly while cupping.

I didn't like my tone, I noticed air leakage from the sides of my lips, I couldn't understand why whatever I tried was futile, I studied videos of Pros over and over, I made my pucker even smaller... didn't help much.

Anyway...
I was apparently very biased regarding how deep or shallow the Chrom should be in my mouth. I read some place that the Chrom should be deep enough so that the lips overlap some of the covers. In another I read to have the lips only on the mouthpiece and that's what I was always doing.
Never even tried to put the harp deeper in.

So I took another close look at Larry Adler, Tommy Reily and others and for the life of me I don't know why I haven't noticed and tried this before, but I put the harmonica MUCH deeper than I was used to, and VIOLA! a HUGE immediate improvement in tone, accuracy, speed... since the inside of my lips don't dry out so fast.. no more sticking and "tripping" over holes... Definitely a boost to my confidence in playing!!

Now that I finaly conquered my main obstacle so far, I can focus on other techniques, more tone improvement e.t.c

I do like the sound of my A chrom, but part of using it was to avoid using the C since I couldn't get it to sound how I wanted. I picked up the C and shot a few tunes with that deep embouchure and I was really (finaly) happy with the results. Even on the high register.

Ok... that's it.
Whew...

[Ed McCullough]

"I also came across a Youtube video made by a drummer or percussionist who had analyzed various classical concert recordings, and who criticized that not even the best conductors were unable to keep the rhythm or tempo, or that triplets were played unevenly, etc..... I think he has failed to understand the whole purpose of this music. I think it was Andrés Segovia who once said that musical interpretation should be like life itself"

I have some recordings of Fritz Kreisler playing violin. When he played with an orchestra he kept to strict tempos. When he played with paino accompaniment (however it is spelled), he was much freeer. When he played totally alone, he made up his pauses, and variation of the beat within a measure with much more freedom.

[SlideMeister]

When he played totally alone, he made up his pauses, and variation of the beat within a measure with much more freedom.

Yeah, making up your own timing on the fly (IMO) is the ultimate freedom of expression, but you pretty much have to do it alone cuz it screws up everyone else that's trying to play or sing along with you and turns the whole piece into a manure salad. It IS fun to do alone though. I do it with numbers like "If You Go Away"

[Ed McCullough]

If you, as a soloist, make up your own timing while playing with other people  ,, it can work well IF the other people know that their job is to keep playing a regualr beat  AND   you return to the establilshed beat and tempo at the beginning of a measure.

[Grizzly]

The Italian term for it is rubato. "Rubato is an expressive shaping of music that is a part of phrasing." (Wikipedia) It does not give license to drop or add beats, even when playing solo. The beat may slow or speed up a little, but it never disappears. And rubato can span barlines.

Tom

[brorat]

The Italian term for it is rubato. "Rubato is an expressive shaping of music that is a part of phrasing." (Wikipedia) It does not give license to drop or add beats, even when playing solo. The beat may slow or speed up a little, but it never disappears. And rubato can span barlines.

Tom

I often notice rubato with singers.  When they have "backup singers", it becomes very evident.  Usually the lead singer will change his/her phrasing at the beginning and/or end of phrases, but the backups maintain the strict beat.  It's really expressive if done correctly!

[Ed McCullough]

Fritz Kreisler did not like to practice. His wife kept on his case and made him practice.

[SlideMeister]

I don't practice! Practicing ain't fun.
Now "playing" OTOH is fun, so that's what I do.
I've always been a lazy guy and hate work that I don't already enjoy, and I think I've built up a resistance to any positive aspects derived from that kind of "un-enjoyable" stuff.  Maybe it's just me, but I believe I learn more from stuff I do enjoy, so I don't practice; I play.

[Ed McCullough]

CARL BAKKER:
You wrote " The old Super 64 or the CX12 are particularly good for shaping the tone, in my opinion"   
I had some 1960s era Chromonica-64s a long time ago, but do not remember how they responded.
Since about 2003 I've had a bunch of Super 64s and preferred them over my Meisterklasse, because the Super 64 would give more tone colors. Also, the Super 64 could have more volume.      I had a Suzuki Sirius 14 straight tuned for a few weeks. I could not get variouis tone colors out of it. Great craftsmanship, but I  could not get the expressiveness that I wanted.  I had same disappointment with Easttop.

You wrote that the Super 64 and the Hohner CX-12 have the most ability to vary tone colors. I am surprised that the abilty to change tone colors is limited to two models.   Can you write more information about that please?

[Ed McCullough]

A.J.  Tons of daily playing with ear and brain engaged is another form of practicing.

[SlideMeister]

A.J.  Tons of daily playing with ear and brain engaged is another form of practicing.

I suppose some may disagree but yeah, it's ~my~ form anyway.

Opinion:  When I'm done playing, I'm satisfied; not glad it's over. For me, when something is no longer fun, it's no longer rewarding, and when those two key elements are gone; why even bother?

Not to sound harsh, but I believe there are a lot of folks who, despite what they say, (or even realize) do certain things more out of vanity than anything else. As soon as they think they've actually accomplished something, they plaster it on the internet as a "look what I can do" thing and only impress folks who are even worse than they are. 

[Bernie9]

I agree 100% that much out there doesn't seem to be up snuff when you, at first, expect a performance somewhat akin to the attitude of the poster.  For example, I used to love Liberace's performance.  You could say all you wanted about his lifestyle, garish wardrobe, and over the top commentary, but he delivered in spades. By virtue of his ability as an entertainer and musician, he earned the right, if there indeed is such a thing, to be haughty and condescending, but if he felt that way, he never let it show. Now contrast that with some of todays wannabees that post on YouTube and other social media. You will find arrogance and other false impressions with very little to back it up.  I see the pros, many times, understated because it behooves them to show a little humility.  People will gravitate toward a performer that is honest and trying, but the reverse will bring on a chilling effect.

I have always believed in being honest with people, and to show confidence in your abilities, but don't let your mouth overload your butt.
.

[Carl Bakker]

CARL BAKKER:
You wrote " The old Super 64 or the CX12 are particularly good for shaping the tone, in my opinion"   

You wrote that the Super 64 and the Hohner CX-12 have the most ability to vary tone colors. I am surprised that the abilty to change tone colors is limited to two models.   Can you write more information about that please?

I did not mean to say that this "ability" is limited to these two models. However, from my collection of chromatic harmonicas, I prefer those when it comes to "shaping the tone". I also own the Super 64X (pre-2018, black/gold), which is above the Super 64, but has a more "neutral" tone (which I prefer, for instance, when recording). 

[SlideMeister]

As I've told a few high-minded "players" over the years when they bragged to me how good they were:
"No. Telling me how good you are is not how it works. When strangers tell other strangers how good you are, that's one you can pay attention to, and even then; don't get cocky."

Over the years, I've run into a few of those "cocky" ones as well, and just as soon, wished I'd hadn't.  Hey, if you never think you're "all that," you'll never get your ego bruised. 

[Jimmy Halfnote]

CARL BAKKER:
You wrote " The old Super 64 or the CX12 are particularly good for shaping the tone, in my opinion"   

You wrote that the Super 64 and the Hohner CX-12 have the most ability to vary tone colors. I am surprised that the abilty to change tone colors is limited to two models.   Can you write more information about that please?

I did not mean to say that this "ability" is limited to these two models. However, from my collection of chromatic harmonicas, I prefer those when it comes to "shaping the tone". I also own the Super 64X (pre-2018, black/gold), which is above the Super 64, but has a more "neutral" tone (which I prefer, for instance, when recording).

  Transferring the same playing style/techniques that have become somewhat ingrained over the years playing the same model may not work on a strange model that has not been given the same time/experimentation, plus your ears have become attuned to the familiar model,a partnership has been established over the years and this has become your standard...a bit like driving the same car for ten years,then buying a new one and wondering why it doesn't seem to drive as easily as the old one...because it isn't the old one,the brakes seem sudden, the gearing is different, there are now six gears not five,and the seat is lower/higher,the handbrake is in an unfamiliar position,light switches,pedals,rear view etc, etc.
                    The Super 64,s i had did not like to be pushed, the reeds were vulnerable, but someone with a more gentle style may not have this problem...if you listen to Rolabo Lin playing Shosty's second waltz he is using quite a bit of lung power but the model he is using handles it effortlessly and the tone does not dissolve but projects instead...this may be needed when playing live on stage competing with other instruments...but not so much playing at home , or in a studio.

                                                        jh.

[mozharp]

Thanks Lone Harper for the recording of Tommy Morgan discussing tone.

For me lately Tommy Morgan’s playing on the Against the Grain albums is the ultimate in terms of tone. He doesn’t overload the reeds. He sounds completely relaxed. The tone is full, focused, sweet, and pure. There are no glitches transitioning between notes and the scale is perfectly even. He uses a light hand vibrato which sounds lovely. He doesn’t need much because his underlying tone is so good. All of this gives him the tools to phrase beautifully.

And yes I’m not surprised he modeled his tone after great woodwind players. His ability to blend with and even emulate the sound of various woodwinds is uncanny (flute, oboe family, and soprano sax in the recordings I’ve heard).

[The Lone Harper]

A snippet from a phone conversation I had with Blackie Schackner 21 years ago. Apologies for the poor sound quality but I had to remove quite a bit of unwanted artifact noise.

[The Lone Harper]

Discussing tone on the chromatic with the late legendary Norton Buffalo, gone but never forgotten:

[SlideMeister]

Good stuff!

[HUGO]

 The choice of your harmonica mic and the use of mic technique - the movement of the harmonica in relation to the mic for tonal and dynamic variety, is something that I consider to be crucial to a Players' tone.

 I say this in full acknowledgement of the comments made on this thread regarding how our technique, methodology, study material, etc. affect our tone.  However, unless you're playing strictly acoustically, the sound of your harmonica must, for better or, worse, pass through a microphone. Our mic choice and how we approach it are most important to how the world will hear us.
 
Slim Heilperns wonderful video here on SM expounded on the subject in great detail.

FWIW: I recently discovered how well the Synco Mic D2 (Hypercardiod, Shotgun, condenser mic) reproduces the my tone on my Sirius 1456 for general recording.  This came about after extensive A/B comparing of different mics in a variety of placements. Long, hard work but the rewards are so worth it.

In closing I'd like to point out that some of the finest music ever recorded was done so before the advent of high fidelity recording. Artists like Bix Biederbecke, Sol Hoopii, Fats Waller, Gene Austin to name only a few have for the most part fallen away from public view. Despite their immense talent and popularity, they can only be heard on low fidelity 78RPM style recordings that few see as anything beyond a novelty due in part to the primitive, period microphones.

  By the mic we choose and how we work it, in conjunction with our technique and style, it's possible to produce a most satisfying of tone.

[smojoe]

I have watched this thread and stayed away from it because, when it comes to tone, I don't have it.

So, In looking up the word tone, it has a large, a very large definition. Like several inches and paragraphs of script. But I see it as being defined in one basic word. Emotion.

Having said that, I never felt that some players had all that much tone. Yet they were very successful. Mr. Morgan, for example, never used a whole lot of it even though he studied with Jerry Adler, whom, had buckets of tone, and in fact I preferred him to his brother when it came to pure delivery without a lot of sometimes annoying nuances.
Then, Bob McFarlane studied with Mr. Morgan, and had bulldozer scoops of tone. Go figure. So, in defense of Mr. Morgan, he was doing EXACTLY what the producers wanted. He had the pulse of the music business nailed down and instead of playing the way HE wanted to play, whether people liked it or not, he played the way he was paid to play.
So instead of playing to an audience of hundreds, he was smart enough to play for an (prospective) audience of a hundreds of THOUSANDS. In Steveland Judkins Morris Hardaway's case. he uses a LOT of presssure. Combining that with sinus', adenoids, nasal, it works for him. 

I know some players whom have such a sweet tone (if that's the correct word..and not style), that should consider doing musics for 'Hospice'. It's not that I'm denegrating them. It's just that their particular tone is SO heavenly it should fit in well with people who are nearing the end.

smo-joe

[SlideMeister]

Interesting take there, Smojé

[Scotty]

I don't practice! Practicing ain't fun.
Now "playing" OTOH is fun, so that's what I do.
I've always been a lazy guy and hate work that I don't already enjoy, and I think I've built up a resistance to any positive aspects derived from that kind of "un-enjoyable" stuff.  Maybe it's just me, but I believe I learn more from stuff I do enjoy, so I don't practice; I play.

I remember saying something very similar to this some time ago when others were saying that 'practice, practice, practice makes perfect' (talking about reading music and/or playing classical music) and I personally don't 'practice' per se. I'd much rather just play - full songs, tunes, instrumentals or whatever comes into my brain at the moment. If it isn't fun and enjoyable, why bother? At least that's always been my own take on it as well. If it's 'work' I'm kind of stubborn and know I won't continue. If it's 'play' then I know I'm going to enjoy the heck out of it. So we've been 'in sync' all along? 

scotty

[Scotty]

I agree about Bob McFarlane - gorgeous tone. Someone else whose tone is unmistakable and absolutely mind-blowing is Phil
Caltabellotta. Val (his wife) posted this on facebook yesterday. This is Phil today - still going strong and playing even better than
I've heard him before he and Val moved to Florida. Remember - he's one of my top harmonica heroes since he plays everything
by ear, creates his arrangements in his head and does it ALL by ear, memory and practice. Indefatigable - with fantastic TONE to
die for:



scotty

[smojoe]

Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Nellieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Los hombre con sensa Chiamare

[SlideMeister]

Wow! Yer right. Hi did get better!