mouthpiece of Hohner Performance Super64

[Ed McCullough]

I bought a Hohner Performance Super64 last fall. Quite good! Plusses and minuses.

What is the black mouthpiece made of? I prefer the silver plated surface of the preious generation of Super64. I think the silver mouthpiece is slightly slipperier than the black ones of the Hohner Performance harmonicas.

I  live in Houston, Tx. How can the mouthpiece be silver plated? Is that possible? Should I be able to find ompanies that deal in jewelry, antiques or something else who can silver plate the mouthpiece?   Maybe the black layer would have to be removed first.

Is this project possible, or is it bound to fail?

[brorat]

The Hohner literature just describes the mouthpiece as "polished stainless steel with a high-end coating.  Not very specific!
I suppose someone with the right skills could remove the "high-end coating" and silver plate the mouthpiece. 
Another possible solution would be to see if you can find a mouthpiece for the Super 64.  That instrument has the polished stainless steel mouthpiece without the coating.  That could be plated, too.  I'm pretty sure the two are interchangeable.

[Ed McCullough]

Borat,
   Thanks for looking up the iniformation. The previous version of Super64 mouthpieces are not the same shape and wold not fit on the Performance Series Hohner chromatic harmonicas.

[brorat]

Borat,
   Thanks for looking up the iniformation. The previous version of Super64 mouthpieces are not the same shape and wold not fit on the Performance Series Hohner chromatic harmonicas.

When I look at the Hohner line of instruments, I see they have a "New Super 64 Performance" and a "New Super 64X Performance".  The latter is the "Black Beauty".  The former is SS.  Otherwise, I see no difference in the two.  It sure looks like the mouthpiece would be interchangeable!  NOTE:  They're both in Hohner's "Performance" line of instruments.
Check this website and compare the two:  https://www.hohner.de/en/instruments/harmonicas/chromatic/performance/new-super-64

[Ed McCullough]

Okay Borat. Thank  you.You just showed me that the regular version of the Performance Super64 is stainless steel without a black coating.

Okay. Now I wonder if any SlideMeister member has a stainless steel  Performance Super 64 mouthpiece and wants to swap it with me.

[Ed McCullough]

I just thought of a good way to proceed with the black coated mouthpiece that I already have. I  should get some very fine abrasive polishing powder. People probably call this "rouge".  I should try polishing the bejabers out of the black mouthpiece I already have. If I should accidentally uncover some spots of stainless steel, nothing will be lost.

This part of Houston has a couple good hardware stores. I'll look there for polishing compounds.  Hmm . . . I could start with toothpaste. Baking soda might be too coarse.

[SlideMeister]

Nah! Just get a rag wheel for your bench grinder and some polishing compounds from Harbor freight. I just picked up some stainless steel compound for five bucks that works better than all the rest. I turned some pots and pans into mirrors.

[Ed McCullough]

I don't have a bench grinder. I only have a 50 year old single speed 1/4 inch electric hand held drill.

[SlideMeister]

A bench grinder is an item no mechanic could be without. I have two one for grinding and another for buffing and and polishing. These are new cuz I lost the old ones when my garage burnt down.There were hundreds of items I didn't replace with the insurance money, but my grinders had priority. 

[Ed McCullough]

I live in an apartment. I need to  get rid of things,not buy new things. Buying bench grinders is not in my future. I think my work on this will be done by hand.

[streetlegal]

I'd be a little concerned about what the surface will be like after the coating is removed. But if you are going down the silver plating route afterwards, it might work out ok in the end. Better yet if you could get a metal worker to do the removal, preparation of surface and the plating for you. He might prefer to do it that way too.

[blowharp]

my wife is a jeweler so I checked one of her suppliers for tools. I have tools for electroplating and powder coating but no room left in the shop to set them up.   There is a product similar to what is on the Performance. The coating is a tarnish inhibitor, good at preventing wear and hypoallergenic so it is safe to put in the mouth.  The process for adding to metal is a hybrid of  electroplating and powder coating. The powder coating part is it's already a thick colored liquid, not powder, but needs to be cured in an oven. The other processes are very similar to plating. Dip baths, anode and electric current using a voltage regulator.  The material comes in a lot of different colors including black. The type of metal you use will determine the finished look.


mike
CustomChromatics.com

[Ed McCullough]

Mike,
  I don't know how your comments answer my question of how to silver plate my mouthpiece. Your comment seems to be thoughts about Hohner's method of making their black mouthpiece.

[blowharp]

Mike,
  I don't know how your comments answer my question of how to silver plate my mouthpiece. Your comment seems to be thoughts about Hohner's method of making their black mouthpiece.

You asked about removing it Ed. I was letting you know how it might have been applied. It may not be a  product you can simply silver plate over it.  Plating always mirrors the finish of the metal so however you are able to remove the finish you will need to bring the bare metal back to a high shine and free of finger prints. Plating is so thin finger prints will appear through it when plated. Best to have a professional company silver plate it. Home  plating processes don't usually add enough silver for the finish to last. I silver plated a few mouthpieces year ago but was not happy with the results. I could not get a high shine on them. Silver usually requires a nickel bonding coat between it and the bare metal.

mike
CustomChromatics.com

[Ed McCullough]

Mike,
Thank you for giving more information.

[Ed McCullough]

    Mike Easton:

Maybe I should try polishing the black material on the Hohner Performance Super 64X, as the first effort. Maybe polishng the black material would make it slipprier. I will try polishing just a few square centimeters at one end of the mouthpiece first.
--Should I try toothpaste as the polishing compound?
--Should I try mooist baking soda as the polishing compound?

[SlideMeister]

I've never gone any further than "flat & smooth" with #400 wet sand paper.

[blowharp]

    Mike Easton:

Maybe I should try polishing the black material on the Hohner Performance Super 64X, as the first effort. Maybe polishng the black material would make it slipprier. I will try polishing just a few square centimeters at one end of the mouthpiece first.
--Should I try toothpaste as the polishing compound?
--Should I try mooist baking soda as the polishing compound?

Ed, it's not the coating you need to make shinier, it's the base metal. You would need to remove the coating to get to the base metal. Polish that then replate or re coat the mouthpiece. Jewelers have the option to add various translucent colors over polished metals. The smokey looking mouthpiece on the G-48's is one of those colors.

mike
CustomChromatics.com

[Ed McCullough]

Mike Easton,

Thanks again for your thoughts.   Taking the black coating off the mouthpiece and then hiring a specialist to polish the metal to extreme slickness and then plate it sounds like asking for a lot of work, which means a lot of money.  I would have to think about it.

You are located a few miles from Harrisburg, Penn. If I ever (unlikely though) drive past you again, I'd volunteer to help you with any moving and rearranging of tables and machinery in your workshop. Sometimes we need help with the mundane things of life. My family and relatives are directly north of you on the New York/Penn. border.   I don't plan a trip soon, but it could happen.

[blowharp]

Hey Ed, I had a chance to work on one of those harps last week. You are right about the mouthpiece. I don't know how anyone can play it without well lubing their lips first.  Your best bet might be to ask someone from Hohner if the coating could be removed and the mouthpiece polished to a high shine.

Good luck
Mike
www.CustomChromatics.com

[Ed McCullough]

Mike,
  Thanks for checking the mouthpiece for me, and giving your opinion.
   Do you know what metal the mouthpiece is made of? When I hold a magnet closoe to the mouthpiece, the magnet zips right past the mouthpiece and sticks to the coverplates.
-------- Ed McCullough

[Ed McCullough]

I'm going to start by seeing if I can use simple toothpaste on a cloth rag to polish a couple square cm. of the black Performance 64X mouthpiece. I wanted to know relative abrasiveness of various toothpastes and found this table. I will try polishing the black surface that is on the mouthpiece before I consider removing the black coating, polishing the metal and then silver plating it.

https://markdannerdmd.com/downloads/recommendations-toothpaste.pdf

[SlideMeister]

I have buffers and stuff, but if I didn't, I'd try a toothpast /baking soda combo myself.

[Ed McCullough]

A.J.
   Do people say you are a pretty buff guy?

[Ed McCullough]

Mike,
Your reaction was much more extreme than I expected..
When I find I cannot move easily on the mouthpiece, I lightly wash both the mouthpiece and my lips with a cloth (Cotton undershirt or wash cloth) with water and slight amount of soap. That gets rid of dried saliva and other junk. You did did check for cleanliness, didn't you.?

[blowharp]

Mike,
  Thanks for checking the mouthpiece for me, and giving your opinion.
   Do you know what metal the mouthpiece is made of? When I hold a magnet closoe to the mouthpiece, the magnet zips right past the mouthpiece and sticks to the coverplates.
-------- Ed McCullough

 I have no idea Ed. It's pretty new to me. Most likely plated brass though. That's the easiest metal to mill outside of aluminum.

I did strip it down and cleaned for 8 minutes in ultrasonic cleaner before testing. aaaaaand used polishing cloth on it and my lips still stuck to it. The owner does not like the harp. I'm not sure if he plans on keeping it or selling it.  He is a really good jazz player.

mike
www.CustomChromatics.com

[Ed McCullough]

Mike,
My lips do not stick to the mouthpiece. I simply think the black Performance 64X mouthpiece is a tiny bit less slippery than a standard silver plated Super 64 mouthpiece.

Maybe the jazz player's black mouthpiece is somehow a lemon, a dud. Maybe the manufacturing had a problem. A one out of a thousand piece of bad luck.

[Ed McCullough]

Mike, what are the reasons the man does not likek his Hohner Performance 64X?

I have a few dislikes myself, but I decided to live with the negatives because it plays loudly and plays softly. Any 16 holer canplay in the lowest octave, but they will not have the ability to play loudly, with expression, will not respond the way the upper octaves do.

The previous 64X, black with gold mouthpiece, was pretty good, but the new Performance model is better.

Weak points of the Performance Super 64X
•Mouthpiece is wider
•Requires more air. Can't figure why it should, but it requires more breath.
•Too big in the hands
•Back edges of the coverplates are sharp
•Highest octave reeds still have some poor, thin tone color, but not as bad as in the Super 64 of ten years ago. I normally play pucker method. Tongue block method improves the sound. I want to try jamming some putty into the reed chambers. That is a known wassy of improving tone quality in the highest octave. Why did Hohner not fix this in the design of the comb? Brendan Power's Power Plugs (I think that was the name) were well known, and Hohner could have built that shape into the comb.

Good points of Performance Super64X, There are other good points.
•Consistent similar tone in most holes. Highest octave has problems, as mentioned.
•Gapping of reeds from factory is consistent.
•I like Hohner's  gapping of reeds as they come out of the factory

I'm going to black out the Hohner name on back of the comb and bottom coverplate.. It's simply my style.. I don't wear clothing that has manufacturer's name on it. I'm important - not the  clothing company. They need to pay me if they want me to advertise for them.

[SlideMeister]

Man! I must be a freak! I play as dry as sawdust, but have never had a problem with a (sticky) mouthpiece or have ever felt the need to do the obligatory "slide the thing back and forth in my puss before playing it" thing. (which always kinda grossed me out, anyway. ) The only problem I can remember having (that I needed to correct) was with the old 270s, O.E.M. cheese-grater feature. The one thing I have noticed and some say it's my imagination, is that silver plated mouthpieces (to me) are way slipperier.

[Ed McCullough]

Mr A.J.
Thanks for you confirmation that silver plated mouthpieces are slipprier.
I thought the Meisterklasse's chrome plated mouthpiece was about as slippery as the silver plated one.

I'm glad to get confirmation of my thought that the black mouothpiece of the nenw Hohner Performance 64X is not as slippery as some others.

I always have the problem of dried saliva slowly building up on a mouthpiece, and making me slide more slowly. (Do you notice the formal, academically correct English?)