PC or Mac

[SlideMeister]

Real Quick, this first poll is to find out what computer you use. If you do this one, please do the others too so we gat an accurate (somewhat) picture)
age

[S.o.S.]

PC all the way dude!

Why Macs Suck. - ---> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6553260189868317794

[SlideMeister]

PC all the way dude!

Oh yeah? My mac runs XP better than my Dell 3 gig P4! At least it did till it sorta crashed the XP part.   But now it's running again. As soon as I get it to where if runs XP foolproofinglyish, I just might retire the PC. Of course I'll keep a few around for when the Mac crashes.  EeeGads! I hate computers

yer old man

[Danny G]

I started out with a wood burning Commodore and graduated to an Amiga. Then I got a job in the office and I've been IBM and HP ever since.

[robertpcoble]

I was a software engineer (retired from that career in 2004). I used PCs and Unix work stations throughout my career (no Macs). I decided to try the "Apple Experience" as a retirement "gift". So far, I like the iMac G5 (OS-X, which is FreeBSD Unix under the skins). I was very annoyed when Apple decided to go over to the Dark Side (right after I bought it), and replaced the PowerPC processor with an Intel chip. Of course, that now opens up the PC market for Apple. Better late than never, I guess. Of course, that also means I'll have to buy another Apple with an Intel chip in a few years because Apple will discontinue support of the PowerPC iMacs. At that point, I'll probably switch back to the WinTel Cartel. It's cheaper state-of-the-art hardware, and there is a plethora of software available for anything under the sun for PC computers.

Rhetorical question: Why didn't Apple do this before MS Windows became the defacto desktop?!?

<RANT>
My current frustration is the audio line in port on the back of the iMac G5. I bought a Griffin Lapel Mic because the "knowledgeable sales person" (THERE'S AN OXYMORON - or is it just "MORON"?!) at CompUSA said it was "PlugNPlay" for an iMac. I should have been suspicious of the rhetoric; it "plugs" but it does NOT "play". The Apple design geniuses created an audio line level stereo port - and "forgot" to include a compatible microphone with a PREAMP that amplifies the MIC level input up to audio line level. Of course, the Apple PlainTalk microphone (made for earlier model Macs) is NOT compatible.

The Girffin Lapel Mic has microphone level output - and Griffin doesn't sell a preamp for it. However, they do sell another gizmo called the Griffin iMic - which plugs into a USB port. They don't support the audio line in port at all! So far, I've found NO commercially available CHEAP preamp with appropriate jack and plug that I can plug the Lapel Mic into and then plug the preamp into the AUDIO LINE IN port. BUMMER! (I guess I'll eventually spring for an iMic interface, but it really frosts my doughnuts!)
</RANT>

So, unless you must march to the beat of a different drummer, stay with the herd and go WinTel PC. You won't have that "Apple experience" of NOT finding anything and everything you need or want for your computer in the marketplace.

Bah! Humbug!
Crazy ('bout harp!) Bob
 

[Grizzly]

Mac mini all the way. But I haven't even got a mic to plug into it. I'll share Bob's rant with my techno-savvy son and see what he says.

Tom

amplification: more crash-proof than my previous macs (imac, performa)

[Jp]

I think it depends alot on what you're using it for. This forum? Doesn't matter. Gaming? A PC. Everything else in your life? Mac. Just kidding. But seriously, I'm a Mac guy. I use a PC at work (and a Mac too), I even own one that's collecting dust, but I doubt I'll go back to PCs at home any time soon.
As for the mic problem, didn't we have this discussion elsewhere? I forgot the end result, but there must be some inexpensive fixes for this problem.

[SlideMeister]

I got the Mac-Mini primarily for GarageBang, but there's a lotta other cool stuff in there too, and I find myself torn between the two. I really like my Intel mac mini sometimes and other times, I ain't so sure. Besides constantly getting ragged on by that rotten kid of mine, the Mac does have a few idiot-syncrasy's that drive me nutz! It literally "flies" around the net but I hated the acceleration of the mouse, so I bought SteerMouse and viola! It's cool. The inability to size the windows except from that one corner . . .well there's just no excuse for that nonsense, and you can't ever find anything on a Mac. There's a zillion places for stuff to hide. The top of the line super drive is slower than what you can get for the PC for fifty bucks. All the software for the Mac (which ain't much by the way) is waaaaay too expensive. and yadayadayadayadayada! But I still like the thing. It IS a different experience, and for guys like me, it can drive ya mad.(That's scary cuz for me, "mad" is close enough to walk to 

age 

[Jp]

Insert Quote
I got the Mac-Mini primarily for GarageBang

That's pretty interesting. I never use it myself.

I hated the acceleration of the mouse, so I bought SteerMouse and viola!

You had to buy a program for that? You couldn't just change it in your preferences? (I have like, 40 mice around the house, so I'm always changing it to suit the each mouse)

It's cool. The inability to size the windows except from that one corner . . .well there's just no excuse for that nonsense,

That's funny. I hate sizing windows on my PC!

and you can't ever find anything on a Mac.

Wow. We're definitley in bizarro worlds on that one, Age. My top complaint about Windons is that I hate having to look for files. The Finder and Spotlight on Mac are just brilliant (in my eyes) and making shortcuts on my Mac is so much easier and more intuitive than on my PC. And colored folders? C'mon! It's the best! I never lose stuff on my Mac, but finding things on PC is a major pain for me. I hate the Windows "finder" (I think "Loser" would be a better name for it )


All the software for the Mac (which ain't much by the way) is waaaaay too expensive.

Depends on the software. I've bought lots of great software lately for less than 50 bucks, which looks and work great (and I have a ton of free programs that work great too). That's another thing -- installing new programs on a Mac is so friggin' easy, it's sometimes scary. I have so many free programs right now I can't even remember them all. I downloaded and installed a couple this morning before breakfast!
Sure, some stuff is expensive: The Microsoft Office Suite, but that's not a Mac problem. The Adobe Suite, again, not a Mac problem (and there's free analogues to alot of those programs, like Gimp instead of Photoshop, and there's one for Illustrator too which is boss).

Anyway, it just goes to show that one man's meat is another man's poisson. I think that's French for poison.

P.S. -- I'd be curious to know what kind of programs you're looking for. I might be able to suggest good alternatives for you.

[Grizzly]

Anyway, it just goes to show that one man's meat is another man's poisson. I think that's French for poison.

That's "One man's fish."

[Jp]

Right. One man's fish is another man's poison. Especially if it's fugu.

[Jp]

Hey Age,

  I know the "Get a Mac" ads get on some people's nerves (Hey Mr. Gates!) but I saw this one and thought it was funny enough to share:

[pmelissakis]

I have no intention of using vista
in the near future.  But I am seriously
considering a Mac for my next machine.

However, the problem with the Mac
is that apple is too proud of their stuff.

Pete

[SlideMeister]

However, the problem with the Mac
is that apple is too proud of their stuff.

Pete

Yep, they've had that problem for years but now they're especially proud since they started using Intel chips!! hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
Arje

[Jp]

I think the "too proud of their stuff" attitude is kind of funny (strange, not amusing). I buy their products because they work in a way that I like. I don't much care if their ads are annoying, if the other people that use them are cultish, or any of that other stuff. It always surprises me a little bit when other people say that they don't like Macs because of some aspect of how they are perceived. Interestingly enough, however, I have known a couple of people who, despite this attitude, ended up getting Macs or Apple products (like the iPod) and ended up preferring them to whatever they were using before. I try to never say "I told you so"

[SlideMeister]

Yep,
just finished reinstalling XP on my MacMini. I'm trying to isolate which update NOT to install (cuz one of they makes it do weird things)  If and when I accomplish this feat, I'd like to use just one computer here at SlideMeister Central. I hear Parallels is a better way to go than BootCamp, but fear it would slow down the MacMini to much, whereas the thing flies when running XP natively with BootCamp. I spoze if I had a "G (whatever)" I wouldn't be as concerned about any speed loss since the processor is about as fast as the one on the starship Enterprise. There are things about both systems that find really cool and really un-cool. I think I'm doomed to be a perpetual Windows/Mac wannabe, not really satisfied with either, while embracing both.

[pmelissakis]

I meant price,  likr Prada is really proud of their purses.

Once in the early 80's I was researching computers for
a company I worked for and was impresed by all the
reports of the MAC.  Once I saw the b & w 9 in screen
and keyboard that you had to buy an external keyboard
if you wanted one with a price over twice that of a PC
I was very dissapointed.

One of the best computers ever made was the Amiga.  All
businesses considered it a toy and would not purchase
it even though it was the most powerful personal computer
in the market at that time.  Shame on businesses !

I haven't checked MAC prices recently and am really
interested in making one my next computer.

Pete

[Yumpin_Yimminie]

I know the poll is long over but I had to jump in here for a few comments.  Have a friend who has been a MAC fan from day 1.  He recently tried to add a webcam to his machine.  The system is MAC OS 10.x.  Anyhow apparently it is very difficult to find a webcam that works.  He has to go and download a 3rd party software package called MACAM or something.  It doesn't support all webcams.  The cams it does support he is having a difficult time finding on the market anymore.  Well at least at the local office supply place. 

Then he is a big user of Yahoo instant messenger.  Another surprise for me was just how much isn't available on the Mac version of Yahoo instant messenger.  No voice either receiving or sending.  Can't find a webcam that works with his computer so can't do video with Yahoo.  It's kind of like the MAC  is the poor stepchild of the family.  The one that doesn't get anything. 

I haven't look at the prices of Mac's for several years since they don't run the software I use.  But when I did look at the prices they seemed to be way overpriced.  In my humble but vociferous opinion that's how come they missed the boat as far as becoming the backbone of business.  They were just greedy and overpriced.  That and that itty bitty little tiny black and white screen they had when they first came out. 

Have a Great Day,
Jim

[Larry C]

My wife and I got our first Mac for home this past year.  Our conclusion is that we wish we did that years ago.  The aggravation I always had with PCs is that they boot up slowly once you add a few programs that automatically run on startup, occasionally freeze, shut down slowly, require anti-virus and anti-spyware programs (which only add to slow boot and occasional freeze).  I had a pro consultant come out to my house to troubleshoot and he told me I had 55 spyware programs running in the background!  I had no idea!  At the time I hardly every even used the Web.   

The Mac laptop boots/shuts down quickly, seems virus and spyware proof, and came LOADED with useful software- inlcuding itunes and garage band.

One excuse I hear from people who never tried a Mac for not switching is "I don't want to have to re-learn on a Mac since I already use a PC..."  It makes no sense since the differences are so minor.  When you go on vacation and rent a Ford, even though your own car is a Subaru, do you really find it difficult to drive?  I use a MAc at home and a PC at work-  there is never confusion.

Price?  Mac's are not expensive if you take into account the software that comes with a Mac v. the software you will buy for your PC.  Also, some people measure monetary worth strictly by processor speed and memory-- both important to a degree, yes-- but Mac's seem to run more efficiently in some ways so you get the same performance with lower specs on processor and memory. 

(I still like my PALM OS Tungsten C the best for email and word processing.)
     

[S.o.S.]

I think the PC & Mac really have their place depending on the user's position. Macs seem to me more suited for the folks who really don't know anything about the inner workings of computers and /or don't care or don't want to know, they just want a computer that works simply. MACS originally were the leaders in video editing but have since waned. They still do have very sexy interfaces which PC's are always playing catch up to.

The PC folks, like me, are the ones who might be more familiar with how computers work. They can take it apart, add to it, subtract from it, customize it. Then with the left over parts, build another one. The recycling ability of the PC is far better than that of the MAC. Once I have recycled a PC to it's end, I throw it out and buy another and start another cycle of inexpensive, long computer use. I don't believe you can do that with MACS. The software flexibilities of the PC are both good & bad. But because they are flexible, I can control things that I want unlike the Mac where it wants to do that for you, which some people are fine with.

Pros & cons both ways but in the end IMO, the PC destroys the MAC in flexibility, expandability and cost.

[Grizzly]

At the risk of being booed off of here because I've never owned a PC, I can report that I've never ever had a problem with any virus, and this latest Mac (mini) is pretty bullet-proof as far as freezes go. PCs have a reputation for having a glass jaw. Has that improved lately?

As far as taking it apart, etc., I don't work on my own cars, either. I wouldn't work on a PC, for that matter.

Tom

[SlideMeister]

What can I say? My kid's right.  I'm admittedly a Mac embryo, but in the last year (since buying an Intel Mac-Mini) I've found the functionality of a Mac, to be annoyingly exclusive to a particular model, and/or/as well as a particular opperating system. Even peripherals, like iCams, and other i/o devices as well as most software share that same annoyability. Interchangeable components are all but nonexistent. And very soon after the next version of "whatever" comes out, one is more or less expected to just throw the old system out and just "shut up and buy a new one, like a good "rich kid" and quit complaining. The other option is to join one of the many Mac forums in line and whine about why "this or that" won't work with another "this or that."

All this comes after a year of actually owning a Mac, and although my opinion is "immovable" I still like the little bugger, probably cause it's the size of a short stack of napkins and runs OS X AND Windows XP faster than my 3gig Dell P4 and really flies on the net. I think that last statement probably sums up the whole phenomenon for me.

Age

[Jp]

The PC folks, like me, are the ones who might be more familiar with how computers work. They can take it apart, add to it, subtract from it, customize it.

I've heard this before. Of course, in the past, it used to be said the other way around. It was the computer geeks who would buy apple computers so they could hack it, and PCs were for the big corps that just wanted something to work.

I would say that, yes, Apple now sells itself to people on the basis of ease of use. But Mac's OS is based on open source software, and Mac users come out with their own programs and hacks almost daily. And, I don't think it's really arguable that most PC users are NOT hacker types, like Gabe, they're just people who need to open Word and Excel docs and make PowerPoint presentations for their boss.

As for whether or not Macs are more or less "disposable" than PCs, well, I've had PCs and Macs. The longest I had a PC was about... I dunno, 8 years? In that time, I think I upgraded the OS once and never upgraded anything else (actually, not true. One PCMCIA card). So far, the longest I've had a Mac is about 3 years, and in that time I've done a major OS upgrade, I've added dozens of programs, upgraded the memory, and even instituted a few very minor hacks of my own. Granted, anecdote is not evidence. I know that. But considering how many people I know who still use iMacs as servers, or have G3s that run faster than my year-old Titanium G4, I have to think that this idea of Apple computers being unalterable or anything other than disposable, isn't true.

There's scientists that use Macs, game developers, video and photography professionals. These are people who need more than just simple point and click operation. I would think it appeals to these people for reasons other than that they come in shiny silver cases.

I've found the functionality of a Mac, to be annoyingly exclusive to a particular model, and/or/as well as a particular opperating system. ... Interchangeable components are all but nonexistent. And very soon after the next version of "whatever" comes out, one is more or less expected to just throw the old system out and just "shut up and buy a new one...

I'd like to know specifically about some of these problems you're referring to. Again, anecdote is not proof, but I haven't had many issues with making things work with my Mac. My cameras, my mouse (not from Apple), my printers, they work fine. If I wanted a camera, I could get one that works with my mac, no problem (I've looked)

Many new version of the Mac laptop (first the G4, now the Macbook) have come out since we bought our first Mac. So far, no need to upgrade. No egregious loss of functionality. My wife and I consider our money to be very well spent. Macs work for us in ways that our PCs did not, and I'm not shy about learning to make things work.

At work, I have both a Mac and PC. The office is split 50/50 with Mac and PC users. Most of the people who do work like mine use PCs. Our IT guy is a PC guy. He doesn't know the first thing about Macs. but, despite my repeated attempts to find out how to do things with my PC, with the IT guy's help, I still find my Mac more functional. I prefer to use it. To be more specific, I find it much easier to organize and find files, to navigate multiple progams at once, and to find programs to do specific tasks that I need (like finding a sweet, free chat client, or a great RSS aggregator).


I think the PC & Mac really have their place depending on the user's position.

There's one thing I can agree with. I really don't mean to sound like a Mac zealot. I wouldn't say Macs are a.) perfect or b.) for everyone. Horses for courses, or something like that. All I'm saying is that there are a great many people who know from more than a little to a whole lot about how computers work and how to make them do what they want, who use Apple computers. Do hacker (or knowledgeable) types make up a greater percentage of PC users than Apple users? I doubt it, though I suppose it's possible.

[SlideMeister]

As it turns out, I'm going over to a friend's house tomorrow night to get some questions answered and taking my mini with me. (we're gonna do some garage band stuff    This guy us going to show me some basic tricks since he's used a PC at work and a Mac at home forever and like JP, prefers the Mac.  My arranger in Pennsylvania (a strictly music type") made the switch to mac (cold turkey) and says he never looked back.  I think there might be a possibility of me doing that if it weren't for a few things that shouldn't be rocket surgery, yet Mac has yet to address: (at least in my Intel mini and OSx:\

Clicking on the address bar in a browser doesn't highlight the whole URL. (I have to highlight and delete it) and it's a bit clumsy.

I can only resize a window from the bottom right corner.

Most of the peripheral software applications are limited for the Mac and lack the "feature robustness" of the PC versions. I've seen the "This feature not available for Macintosh" message a lot.

Websites (although they "fly" on a Mac) are not as friendly to that format as PC's. Ebay, for example, has yet to release a Mac Compatable turbo-Lister program.  Many other websites are either just prejudiced against Macs or apparently don't see them as a big enough portion of the market to bother making the features work for Macs.

The rest is probably just a matter of unfamiliarity with the Mac's system since I've been using a PC since the eighties and mostly use the Mac-Mini to see how the site works for Mac users.

I expect to learn a lot from my buddy, Jeff tomorrow, but I still think I'll end up being happy that the Mac runs XP as well as it does (better than my PC actually ) and gives me the option to switch back and forth between both opperating systems at will. I'm no PC game freak, so I can get by with comparitively small ammount of video ram the mini offers. It seems to run my 21" Gateway monitor at 1680 x 1050 pretty well, especially with the DVI cable (as opposed to the lesser quality video I get with VGA cable)

Upgrades for the Mac-Mini? Yeah, I'd like to know more about what all can be done to make this little guy breathe even more fire than it already does; especially if I loose the Dell and just use the Mac for everything as I mentioned above. I understand there's a new chipset out there. I also know doubling my RAM to 2gig and adding a 500gb stacker drive is supposed to make a huge difference. I guess all it takes is money,eh?

Oh yeah, Mac compatable cameras are hard to find for under 39 bucks too. The iCam is what? like 200 bucks? That's just flat out ridiculous. I'm not Stephen Spielberg making movies; I just wanna talk to guys like Addison Hitchcock on my mac again 

[SlideMeister]

I've found the functionality of a Mac, to be annoyingly exclusive to a particular model, and/or/as well as a particular opperating system. ... Interchangeable components are all but nonexistent. And very soon after the next version of "whatever" comes out, one is more or less expected to just throw the old system out and just "shut up and buy a new one...

I'd like to know specifically about some of these problems you're referring to. Again, anecdote is not proof, but I haven't had many issues with making things work with my Mac. My cameras, my mouse (not from Apple), my printers, they work fine. If I wanted a camera, I could get one that works with my mac, no problem (I've looked)

I'm on a few Mac newsgroups, (actually just one now) And I always hear about guys complaining about this or that feature or piece of hardware not working with this or that model when using this or that particular OS. If it weren't for that kind of problem, the group wouldn't have anything to talk about

[Jp]

I'm on a few Mac newsgroups, (actually just one now) And I always hear about guys complaining about this or that feature or piece of hardware not working with this or that model when using this or that particular OS. If it weren't for that kind of problem, the group wouldn't have anything to talk about

I didn't mean to make it sound like I didn't believe you. I was just wanting to know what specific problems you'd had.

[Jp]

Mac compatable cameras are hard to find for under 39 bucks too. The iCam is what? like 200 bucks? That's just flat out ridiculous.

I dunno about prices, but you can try the Macally IceCam, there's a couple of Logitech cams out there too. I think most or all are about 30 bucks. Also, iSight has been discontinued, but yeah, it was pricey.

[pmelissakis]

I've heard this before. Of course, in the past, it used to be said the other way around. It was the computer geeks who would buy apple computers so they could hack it, and PCs were for the big corps that just wanted something to work.

Yes, it was business that determined what computer and software
would be used. It would make or break a lot of companies.

The non-users/non programers determined what computer/software
companies would be successful.  That was true in the late 70's early 80's.
Not so much anymore but too late.

Pete

[Larry C]

It isn't really a fair comparison - Mac v PC- because Macs are designed and made by Apple and there are only a few models to choose from, while "PCs" are many in number and are made by many different manufacturers. 

MS Windows based machines are mixed with all kinds of components and drivers and software from all different places.  It must be hard to get smooth integration and avoid conflicts, particulalry when users add aftermarket software. 

Macs are designed and loaded up by the Mac team prior to sale to the user.  So they tuned them to run smoothly.  And if you are like me and you try to avoid aftermarket software in general and, when necessary, you try to only use Mac's own, you will ensure continued smooth operation.

Age said what I agree is the thing I like best about my Mac-- really fast, smooth - especially on the Net, and no freezes.     

[henrymouni]

Hey Gabe,
  I have joined the iMac world and just noticed this thread.
Microsoft have been lax in the past and have not taken their customers complaints seriously.
You will be pleased to know that this is changing!!
If only I'd known I may have been a 'Vista' man now.
I think Mac is GREAT however, but enclose this link to give YOU hope for the future:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D28FkfJiauk

Henry.

PC all the way dude!

Why Macs Suck. - ---> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6553260189868317794