Diminished tuning

[Woelneberg]

I have put down a order for a Hohner CX12 in Diminished tuning from Andre Colhelo. Really excited to try this approach to chromatic. Since I am recently new the Solo Tuning hasn't set with me yet, so I am going to use the opportunity to learn a more logical approach.

Anybody use this tuning? Was it difficult to learn?

[Gnarly He Man]

I just did one for EZ. So I played it for a few days.
I like dimi, but settled on bebop for my purposes.
There is no home key!

[ez-slider]

Good man good man.. I personally love it! It unlocked chrom for me. I kinda feel like a crazy evangelical whenever the topic comes up because I think everyone should be "Saved" lol. It just makes so much sense. I really like the repeat notes of draw button and next hole blow on button.. gives you lots of options for phrasing. Also the fact that there is no home key as it were means you and the button are friends from the start. I am currently having fun exploring the double stop potential as there are so many available with this tuning. Did you go for C dimi? I have 2 in it. Both SCX48s and a symphony 48 in Gb which is the same note layout but shifted down two holes. Welcome to the club and I hope more will join us! I understand if you were years and years deep on solo it might be tough or if coming from playing piano I guess solo might make more sense.. or at least like Gnarly with Bebop.. Ez

[Woelneberg]

Good to know there are more of us that are enlightened! I have been studying the layout lately and the spread of enharmonics seems great for exactly that purpose. Can't wait to give it a go!

I went for a G harmonica that is being retuned. I realise now that this means I will have a different spread of notes if I go for a 16 holer in C later as G is not in the diminished C scale. Kind of bummer, but I prefer playing 12 holes and I think a G in Dimi will have all the notes I need.

[Gnarly He Man]

Dimi is logical, and the enharmonic is nice.
Why then do I prefer bebop solo tuned?
Answer—
My primary instrument is guitar, and I came to harmonica by way of the diatonic, and altered tuned Diatonics.
I use the chords to help orient me on the instrument.
Although there are dyads in dimi, there isn’t a home key, or any triads.
So bebop works for me.
Truth is, there is no perfect tuning, but I understand the desire to proselytize.
Power Chromatic also makes a good button harmonica.
But we should recognize that any tuning is good if you can make good music with it.

Edit: I would have started on Gb if I were you—ask Andre if he will do that.
There are several good dimi players, check out Jason Rogers.

[Woelneberg]

I agree about there being no perfect tuning. We all have our own preferences And I don't even know if Dimi is the right one for me, but it is the one that seems best.

I had a talk with Andre and he could do it. I settled on not, because the G seems more practical for Jazz since the enharmonics favors typical jazz keys. I might be making a mistake here, but worst case scenario I have to relearn from C or get a tenor tuned down to Bb diminished.

[Monacensis]

What do you think about a dimi tuned chromatic with push the button lowers the tone like bending on a diatinic blues harp. I play a dimi blues harp so I think it will be natural for me. Schema Hole 1: Push Blow Cb Blow C Push Draw Db Draw D Hole 2: Push Blow D Blow Eb Push Draw E Draw F and so on

[ez-slider]

Totally go Gb if you can.. But I think A is really the best starting note for Dimi. I don't really use the G or Gb and you don't sacrifice the upper range. My opinion any way. Considering changing one of my C's to A. Would be a fun little project. Also have a 56 I need to tune also. EZ

[ez-slider]

What do you think about a dimi tuned chromatic with push the button lowers the tone like bending on a diatinic blues harp. I play a dimi blues harp so I think it will be natural for me. Schema Hole 1: Push Blow Cb Blow C Push Draw Db Draw D Hole 2: Push Blow D Blow Eb Push Draw E Draw F and so on

yeah pretty neat to think about.. I have a dimi lucky 13 and it is a little different to think about. EZ

[Woelneberg]

Totally go Gb if you can.. But I think A is really the best starting note for Dimi. I don't really use the G or Gb and you don't sacrifice the upper range. My opinion any way. Considering changing one of my C's to A. Would be a fun little project. Also have a 56 I need to tune also. EZ

Why do you find Gb a better key than G? Is it because it is easier to get that pattern in 16 hole chromatics?

[ez-slider]

[quote author=Woelneberg link=topic=19910.msg256507#msg256507 date=1617690517

Why do you find Gb a better key than G? Is it because it is easier to get that pattern in 16 hole chromatics?
[/quote] pretty much.. I had several C chroms and going from C solo to Dimi is only like 13 notes to change or something like that. I tuned my first couple myself. Shutout out to Gnarly his ears are better than mine.. but also my wife appreciates me not tuning harmonicas 😬 Also it is keeping closer in line with what I had already built from solo and Richter in a way. But like I laid I think for me A would really be best.. I can't hardly hear myself when I get to know if it's loud. I think I will stick with one General system though. I.e. starting on Gb A C or Eb EZ

[John Broecker]

I have a 16-hole diminished ("dimi")
slide chromatic, starting on C as the
lowest pitch.

When I bought the reed plates from
Mike Easton ("Bloharp"), I was not
sure as to it's scale properties.

I don't practice on it very often,
but it's so dang EASY to play
chromatically, starting on any
reed.

Once you learn the 3 basic reed
placements, you won't need to
learn any others.

Best Regards, Stay Healthy

JB

[SlideMeister]

Wow! The high notes must be up in the dog-whistle range, no?

[Gnarly He Man]

Wow! The high notes must be up in the dog-whistle range, no?

Nope, same range.
You’re thinking of augmented.

[SlideMeister]

You're right! I wuz thinkin' "auggi" Whats the diff between the two. Somebody explain to me again.

[Gnarly He Man]

Here ya go—
On your harmonica, hole 1 is C, C#, D, Eb.
That’s the same on dimi and augmented.
But your hole 2 is E, F, F, F#.
On dimi it’s Eb, E,  F, F#.
On augmented it’s E, F, F#, G.

[SlideMeister]

No way I'd ever change this late in life but if I were thirty years younger I might strongly consider Auggie (but prolly not the Dimi)

[Gnarly He Man]

That 4 hole John Cook jobbie (let’s call it a 240 ) would give you C4 to Eb5 on an auggie.

[ez-slider]

There are several good dimi players, check out Jason Rogers.

Fella can Shred!  From the  couple of vids on his Tube.
EZ

[Gnarly He Man]

Jason does not like to brag, so I will do it for him.
He is one of the best dimi players in the world.
JP Pagán also plays dimi, i don’t think he’s on here anymore.
And Eugene Ryan in Ireland, he’s pretty good on dimi.

[ez-slider]

Jason does not like to brag, so I will do it for him.
He is one of the best dimi players in the world.
JP Pagán also plays dimi, i don’t think he’s on here anymore.
And Eugene Ryan in Ireland, he’s pretty good on dimi.

Both great looking players!
Had stumbled on Eugene before, but did not realize
he played Dimi.. In G as it were..
EZ

[Eugene]

Hey Gary, EZ, W and all,

Thanks for the mention. Yep, dimi... it does take a little getting used to but I love the regularity of it, as well as half-valved bends.

There's a lot of dimi on on the 3 songs here - you'll have to click Listen and forward to 1 hour 31 mins in - hope you enjoy listening:
https://www.rte.ie/lyricfm/blue-of-the-night/programmes/2021/0225/1199475-blue-of-the-night-thursday-25-february-2021/

 

[Jason Rogers]

Hi all,

Nice to see chatter re: Dimi.  I hope you enjoy it, W!

Thanks for that mention, Gary.  It was always my strategy: to take up an instrument/tuning that only five people play; that way, I can be one of the top five!

Nice to hear your group, Eugene!

--Jason

[ez-slider]

Hi all,

Nice to see chatter re: Dimi.  I hope you enjoy it, W!

Thanks for that mention, Gary.  It was always my strategy: to take up an instrument/tuning that only five people play; that way, I can be one of the top five!

Nice to hear your group, Eugene!

--Jason

rofl rofl great playing on your end u on Sir!     EZ

[Gnarly He Man]

Oh yeah, Matt Watson.

[ez-slider]

Oh yeah, Matt Watson.
https://youtu.be/l6SB5eEeLXo

yup he was the first I found.      EZ

[Jason Rogers]

rofl rofl great playing on your end u on Sir!     EZ

Thanks, EZ!

W said:

I settled on not, because the G seems more practical for Jazz since the enharmonics favors typical jazz keys. I might be making a mistake here, but worst case scenario I have to relearn from C or get a tenor tuned down to Bb diminished.

Hey W,  for playing purposes, I think you can't go wrong with whatever key Dimi you choose.  If the range of the harp covers the range you want to play, then you're good.

If the plan is to play jazz, then IMO, we can't simply think about enharmonics as favoring certain keys as it's far more nuanced than that.


One thought about switching keys of Dimi: If we want to change to another key Dimi, then we can treat it as if it's a transposing instrument.
   For example:
   Since I am at home on a key of A Dimi, I can play music in the key of C and think in the key of C.
   If I change to a key of G Dimi and I still want to play music in the key of C, I can think in the key of D. It will sound like the key of C.

[ez-slider]

rofl rofl great playing on your end u on Sir!     EZ

Thanks, EZ!

W said:

I settled on not, because the G seems more practical for Jazz since the enharmonics favors typical jazz keys. I might be making a mistake here, but worst case scenario I have to relearn from C or get a tenor tuned down to Bb diminished.

Hey W,  for playing purposes, I think you can't go wrong with whatever key Dimi you choose.  If the range of the harp covers the range you want to play, then you're good.

If the plan is to play jazz, then IMO, we can't simply think about enharmonics as favoring certain keys as it's far more nuanced than that.


One thought about switching keys of Dimi: If we want to change to another key Dimi, then we can treat it as if it's a transposing instrument.
   For example:
   Since I am at home on a key of A Dimi, I can play music in the key of C and think in the key of C.
   If I change to a key of G Dimi and I still want to play music in the key of C, I can think in the key of D. It will sound like the key of C.

Good thoughts good thoughts..
It's great really.. I don't really think about sharps and flats now.. Just sound patters.
Perhaps I could have gotten there on solo but I doubt it would have ever felt this comfy
EZ

[Gnarly He Man]

Perhaps I could have gotten there on solo but I doubt it would have ever felt this comfy
EZ

Right, dimi is real intuitive.
BTW, Matt Watson just told me he is sending me a couple of CX-12s to rehabilitate, so he is keep up the good work—watch out Chesper!

[Jason Rogers]

   ha ha!  thanks for the heads up!  That Matt is so low-key and friendly we'll never see him coming!