Stock or "customised"/"optimised"

[Jeff H]

I am curious.. there must be hundreds if not thousands of chromatic harps sold annually.  I will assume many are actually played; by novices, skilled amateurs and presumably professionals.  For the sake of this discussion, let;'s call the harmonica in question a Hohner Super 64 ( not an X)... how many harmonicas do you suppose are sent off to customisers/optimisers and and how many are simply played as is.

Is it not possible that many of these harmonicas are good if not excellent playing machines and any modifications might make small or no appreciable difference in playability.
Is not a "professional" Hohner Chromatic good enugh as is to make good music?

I am well aware that some guitars need atttention but others need none ( having owned around 100 I can safely make that statement) and that button accordions ( I have owned over 50 including Hohners and handmade Italian boxes)  can need some attention but others are just fine,, and the price is not reflective in the playability.

So I am curious as to those who have some experience with Hohner Chromatics.. specifically the Super X  that have found them just fine out of the box.. or needing attention.. and if they were modified  how much of a differnce did you notice.

I have owned a few Chromatics including 270's, 280's, CX-12's and Hering Opusses , Opium, Opi ? (2) some customized....  I must tell you I personally found little difference
stock to customized  .. am I simply less discriminate than others or did I simply get decent harmoincas...

Considering the Super X is supposed to be a professional instrument.. does that imply they are  or could be good out of the box.
Should someone take the chance on a stock unit.. or bite the bullet and pay up for a tweaked  harmonica?
DO all pros have their harps modified......?

Appreciate your comments and observations.....

Thanks

Jeff

[Grizzly]

Hi, Jeff,

Your post covers lots of territory, and I suppose there are lots of scenarios to cover your questions. My guess is that most harmonicas are played as received, and most players would not know any better. Or they're put in a drawer for a variety of reasons, including disillusionment at their difficulty (they're not diatonics, after all), or a lack of adjustment that's attributed to some other cause.

That said, my first recent (I played decades ago but never really learned to play) harmonica happened to be a Super 64. If that's all I ever bought, and hadn't discovered SlideMeister and all the information contained in the prodigious minds of its members, I probably would have been content.

Since then, I've acquired a Chrometta 14, several CX 12s, and a CBH 2016. All of them have needed work, even the new ones, from taking the kink out of the slide (Chrometta), re-tuning badly out-of-tune reeds (the whole of my CX 12 Tenor, same for the Chrometta)—and that was on the new ones. The Super 64 was the best of the lot, in tune with itself (albeit at A=444, standard for Hohner). But it still benefited from tweaks: replace the broken spring (twice in a year), lightening its tension, smoothing the slide, attempting to make it more airtight.

I had the opportunity to play on a tweaked-out CX 12 and a custom CX 16, and could detect no appreciable difference in response or airtightness. I did tweak the slide on one of mine by taping one side, and it seemed to quiet it down some. I'll do my others eventually, but it's not a high priority.

Judging by what people here say, quality can vary enough in Hohners, especially, that playability can be disappointing or excellent, depending on luck—and the tolerance (or ignorance) of the player. Reportedly, Herings and Suzukis seem well made, with a few sample exceptions.

Some pros have their harps tweaked; some learn to do it themselves. I'm no pro, as in not making my living playing, but I make minor adjustments on my own for a couple reasons. I'm cheap, and don't want to pay anyone else, and it gives me some satisfaction to be able to make my own improvements. I won't tackle the big things (yet), but I would guess the majority of players work on their own. It's the nature of the instrument to need maintenance.

Hope this helps.

Tom

[Grizzly]

Just re-read your post. For insights on Hohner Super 64X, go to that topic under "General" and read the comments, especially Danny G's.

Tom

[Ziggy]

My first (Chromatic) Harmonica was a Super 64. After a month of playing without warming it up I screwed up the windsavers. So I sent it to Dick Gardner, who "Gardnerized" it. Remember, I had only played this harmonica and only for a month. Wow! What a difference. Better sound, smoother, quieter slide and very airtight.

Since then I have bought just about every harmonica under the sun. I play them straight out of the box and enjoy most of them for different reasons.

I play the Super 64 when I record or play for others...but I am saving it for Carnigie Hall 
Ziggy

[SlideMeister]

The stock or customized question could probably be answered uniquely by hundreds of player as no two Chromatics are the same, just as no two players are the same. My guess is that the player gets more critical as he/she improves and begins to demand more from an instrument. My first Chromatic was absolutely the best thing on the planet (at the time, since I had nothing with which to compare it but a beat up Marine Band) Looking back, that 10 hole Koster Chromatic I had when I was 10 years old might actually been a real crutch, but you couldn't prove it by me at the time. It was like I died and went to Heaven. My next one was a super 64 and now that one was the best, since I literally wore the Koster out to the point where it hardly played anymore. I played that 64 for almost 10 years till it was ready to replace. Here's the secret: at 19, I was beginning to get serious, (and better as a player) THATS when I finally began to get a bit more particular.

I switched to 270s and began to see differences in quality from one to the other; some were fine right out of the box, others were so bad (come to think of it, I don't know what I did with all of them) but I just bought another one for $10.40 (those were the days eh?) Oh yeah, the one thing all of them had wrong with them was that the mouthpieces needed to be made less lethal) As I did the 270 bit for another twenty five years, I began to tweak my own, since I didn't even know any other players or knew there any such thing as customizers. Actually I didn't know any of them till after I started this group seven years ago )

Since then, I learned what I've been doing right and wrong all these years. Since I really hate working on them, if I ever actually make a "grownup" living before I die, I just may have one done by a pro.

I do have a Power Chrometta 14 that was given to me as a gift and can honestly tell the difference between that and my stock Chromatta 14. Not sure what Brendan did to it but it's definitely better. Again, it could be the fact that he starts out with a German Chrometta and mine are Chinese. 

Bottom line IMO is that the customizers are good at what they do and they're out there if you can spend a few extra bucks to get the best 270 (or whatever) you can get.

[Jeff H]

I have owned a total of 6 customized chromatics.. but only one stock 270  which I played a total of one hour in 20 years and when  later it developed a cracked body I had it repaired and "customized".. I never liked that harmonica... before or after its heart transplant..

Having never owned and played a non customized  Hohner chromatic  I was simply curious what others have experienced... I did own the 2 Opusses Opettes  which were box stock.
I liked them much better than the 270  but still wanting  a  4 octave instrument... and hence the questions on stock vs customized

I do think that you are correct it is case by case just as it is with many other instruments....some are great some bad and most somewhere in the middle

I think I may take a chance on a Super 64  stock  and then have another 12 hole made for me.. possibly a CX-12   tuned to 442

Thanks


Jeff

[ejacob4]

I have a 270 tenor. It was like sticking your face in a fan to play. Bill Romel made it a comb, a mouthpiece, and sold me some one piece windsavers.

Where Do I Start? It did leak. It does not. The Mouthpiece Hurt and Damaged me. It does not, I used a few OUNCES of beeswax to make the thing playable. I do not now. I used to pray the nails would not vibrate out once I had taken the blasted thing abart to try to get the reeds gapped at something less than canyonesque sizes. Worst, you had to be a carpenter magnified to replace a valve. Now I unscrew THE ONE plate I need to clean or replace a valve on, do it and get back to playing.

It works better. It feels measureably better. It actually sounds measureably beter.
It is the instrument I play most. I play more and enjoy it more.

I also have s super x that has not, nor do I think ever will see a customizer. It is fine.

Lastly in the customized or not discussion. I have a Stan Harper. It could be great. The comb is warped. I'm sending it off to Bill Romel as soon as I get myself together. I'm geting a great comb, another wayyyyyyy cool feeling mouthpiece (the stock one on the hering is fine, but as long as . . . ), and whatever else Mr. Romel thinks might make that instrument as good as the reedplates suggest it could be.

 I do not play for money. It just makes me whole.

[Grizzly]

I think I may take a chance on a Super 64  stock  and then have another 12 hole made for me.. possibly a CX-12   tuned to 442

Thanks


Jeff

My main ax: CX 12. Other than the tuning, I've been satisfied with them. 444 is high for me, and, as I've said, the Tenor was all over the place. It ranged from 436 to 448 (if memory serves). I re-tuned it myself, and now even the octaves (most of them) are in tune. Airtightness doesn't seem to be a problem.

My Super 64, OTOH, is leaky by comparison. I played it for an hour last night for the first time in awhile. I'll try taping its slide, and see if that helps. I've already replaced the spring with an unbreakable one, 10K gold flute spring wire bent to shape, and smoothed the slide components. I also put a bit of beeswax in places, but doubt if it made a difference.

I'm not against sending it out for customizing, and may do it someday. But I'm playing mostly the CX 12s, so it's not a high priority. I find a standard and a tenor sufficient to cover my needs, and haven't yet needed to change instruments in the middle of a tune to accommodate range. The 12s just fit my hands better than the 16s.

Tom

[John Broecker]

Greetings, Jeff Hilldreth and others. This is a reply to the question, stock or customized or optimized?

Until about 6 months ago, all my harmonicas were played "straight out of the box." Then, I sent two Hohner 280s, pre 1936 vintage, to John Infande for restoration and customizing, along with 2 Hohner Chordomonica II double-slide harps, for restoration and customizing.

One of the 280s is a "Chromonika III", made for the German market before 1936. The other is a "64 Chromonica", made for the export market from Germany to the English-speaking countries. As far as I know, they are and were identical, except for the covers.

I had played the 280s for many years, and the reed plates are still super. John tweaked and cleaned the
280s, and replaced the nails in the comb with screws to hold the reed plates. He replaced the wood combs with acrylic combs, and replaced the leather windsavers with the modern mylar windsavers.

The wood combs were replaced with acrylic combs on the two Chordomonica II harps, and screws replaced nails in the combs, to hold the reed plates to the combs.

I was getting impatient with cracked wood combs of the 280s and Chordomonicas. I repaired the combs myself a few times, but the cracks would return in a year or two. I didn't do any screw replacements, leaving that to John Infande.

As a result of John's work, these 4 harmonicas are no longer the original "out of the box" harps, but they sound better, are stronger and more permanent. I'll never have to worry about cracked combs again.

I have done a few modifications, (gapping, reed replacemets, simple stuff), but 95% of my harmonicas are played from the box.

These were 4 antique, collectable harps, but now they're 4 useable harps.

John Broecker.

[Harmman]

I bought a Super 64X new and a regular 64X new also.  Both are great.  I bought a used 64 and it leaks like crazy.

The 270's I've bought new are ok except for those blasted mouthpiece screws.  Any one know why Hohner does use metal inserts?  I'd gladly pay the extra 20 cents for them.

I'm hoping to upgrade a few and will report the difference.

[Tom]

Every harmonica player is different.  I don't think one stock harmonica fits all.  However, I don't think any of the stock harmonicas, regardless of price, are a finely finished instrument.  Tuning is standard at 443.  That doesn't work for me at all.  Slides are noisy and not smooth.  Air leaks abound and response is variable from reed to reed. 

In my opinion, every harmonica needs work to accommodate good playing.  I am very dissappointed that "out of the box professional chromatics" require reworking when new.  But then, that is a result of mass manufaturing.

Bottom line, I have dozens of harmonicas purchansed from the time I started playing and none fill the bill (sorry Romel) until refined or customized.

Stryker